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Semi-related question I've had about California taxes: are they actually enforced for non-residents? And if so, how? California non-resident taxes seem to be q

Semi-related question I've had about California taxes: are they actually enforced for non-residents? And if so, how? California non-resident taxes seem to be quite aggressive. Any income from "California sources" for non-residents is considered taxable, but "California sources" includes any income made while you're physically in California. So if you are a salaried employee and vacation in California and work in a coffee shop for a few hours, or if you go to a conference in California and don't take vacation days, you're technically supposed to file California taxes and pay for any income on those days, at least as I understand it. Yet I know many coworkers who have gone to conferences for a full week in California and not known about this at all, and definitely never filed or paid California state income tax. And they have never been informed of this, let alone gotten fined or served prison time or otherwise been punished in any way. The apparent impossibility of enforcement makes me think that any non-residents paying California taxes who aren't uber rich enough to attract the attention of journalists are just fools. Or am I just misunderstanding the policy?

mixmastamyk 7y ago
Not sure your details are right, but thought I’d add an anecdote. One year I was abroad at tax time and dutifully filed. Couldn’t pay CA tax bill though due to a security restriction at their site. Will pay later I thought. Six months later they seized my bank account for a month, which was just a tad inconvenient.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Interesting. I was abroad for a bit too and I just delayed my federal taxes and Cali let me off the hook too.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Maybe filing a extension would have been better, dunno was 10+ years ago. Did not know about restriction until last minute. Still, illustrates CA is not shy and billing people, rather taking money with both hands.
gamblor956 7y ago
California payors report payments to non-Californians (Form 592), so California knows about your CA-source income. Merely attending a conference is generally not "CA work" whether or not you take vacation days. If the CA FTB were to even think of deciding as such the Legislature would smack them down immediately because a silly rule like that would devastate CA's convention tourism industry. However, presenting at a conference is work. Working in CA remotely while on vacation is technically CA source income, but unless your employer or you report it, CA has no way of knowing. In many situations, there's also thresholds that have to be hit for CA taxation to apply.
- throwaway818283 7y ago
  > Merely attending a conference is generally not "CA work" whether or not you take vacation days. Are you sure? A quote from the CA FTB website [1]: > A nonresident’s income from California sources includes income from a business, trade, or profession carried on in California. If the nonresident’s business, trade, or profession is carried on both within and outside California and the part outside California is separate and distinct from the part within California, only income from the part conducted within California is California source income. If you're a salaried employee and you're attending a conference in California and being paid for those days when you're attending, why wouldn't that be considered California source income? > However, presenting at a conference is work. You mean if you are getting paid for said presentation? I agree that that one is 100% clearly taxable by California and would probably have been reported to the FTB by the conference organizers. I'm talking about situations where you don't make any additional income beyond your normal salary paid by your employer. If you meant salary received during unpaid presentations too, I'm curious what you think would differentiate that from merely attending the conference for work. [1] https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/fileRtn/Nonresidents-Part-Year-Residents.shtml#BusinessIncome https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/fileRtn/Nonresidents-Part...
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Because it's not work... unless your job involves going to conferences. And if it was work then taking a vacation day to go to a conference on the company's dime would be taxable. If you're in doubt you can just call the FTB. Despite what others are saying in these comments, they are actually quite responsive and helpful.

mixmastamyk 7y ago

Not sure your details are right, but thought I’d add an anecdote. One year I was abroad at tax time and dutifully filed. Couldn’t pay CA tax bill though due to a security restriction at their site. Will pay later I thought. Six months later they seized my bank account for a month, which was just a tad inconvenient.

scarejunba 7y ago
Interesting. I was abroad for a bit too and I just delayed my federal taxes and Cali let me off the hook too.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Maybe filing a extension would have been better, dunno was 10+ years ago. Did not know about restriction until last minute. Still, illustrates CA is not shy and billing people, rather taking money with both hands.

gamblor956 7y ago

California payors report payments to non-Californians (Form 592), so California knows about your CA-source income. Merely attending a conference is generally not "CA work" whether or not you take vacation days. If the CA FTB were to even think of deciding as such the Legislature would smack them down immediately because a silly rule like that would devastate CA's convention tourism industry. However, presenting at a conference is work. Working in CA remotely while on vacation is technically CA source income, but unless your employer or you report it, CA has no way of knowing. In many situations, there's also thresholds that have to be hit for CA taxation to apply.

throwaway818283 7y ago
> Merely attending a conference is generally not "CA work" whether or not you take vacation days. Are you sure? A quote from the CA FTB website [1]: > A nonresident’s income from California sources includes income from a business, trade, or profession carried on in California. If the nonresident’s business, trade, or profession is carried on both within and outside California and the part outside California is separate and distinct from the part within California, only income from the part conducted within California is California source income. If you're a salaried employee and you're attending a conference in California and being paid for those days when you're attending, why wouldn't that be considered California source income? > However, presenting at a conference is work. You mean if you are getting paid for said presentation? I agree that that one is 100% clearly taxable by California and would probably have been reported to the FTB by the conference organizers. I'm talking about situations where you don't make any additional income beyond your normal salary paid by your employer. If you meant salary received during unpaid presentations too, I'm curious what you think would differentiate that from merely attending the conference for work. [1] https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/fileRtn/Nonresidents-Part-Year-Residents.shtml#BusinessIncome https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/fileRtn/Nonresidents-Part...
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Because it's not work... unless your job involves going to conferences. And if it was work then taking a vacation day to go to a conference on the company's dime would be taxable. If you're in doubt you can just call the FTB. Despite what others are saying in these comments, they are actually quite responsive and helpful.