6 ms·

For those who didn't (or can't) read the article, the question being posed is--can they resist committing to additional recurring expenses in the face of a one-

by Zanni 7y ago

For those who didn't (or can't) read the article, the question being posed is--can they resist committing to additional recurring expenses in the face of a one-time windfall, not can they resist imposing a windfall profits tax on IPOs.

malandrew 7y ago
If they do do this, I really hope they make it recurring because every time they do stuff like this, they give more of a reason for their most productive citizens to flee the state, which causes them to lose tax revenue they were banking on, which causes them to increase taxes to cover the shortfall from fleeing taxpayers, eventually creating a virtuous cycle that bankrupts the state. There is no state in the country that deserves to lose its most productive citizens and go bankrupt as much as California.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  Domestic emigrants from California are actually mostly the less wealthy/less income earning residents who can't afford to live there anymore [1], so it's basically the opposite of what you're saying. [1] https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265 https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265
- knolax 7y ago
  >There is no state in the country that deserves to lose its most productive citizens and go bankrupt as much as California. I'm genuinely curious as to why there is so much rancor towards California in this forum? Could you explain why they deserve this?
  - djakjxnanjak 7y ago
    Punching up?
    - barry-cotter 7y ago
      Abuse is ok if you’re doing it to a disfavoured group that can plausibly be claimed to have greater social privilege on some access. For example if a black Yale graduate insults a white waitress that’s ok because as a white person she has privilege and he doesn’t. It’s a crass application of intersectionality theory, the only kind that exists in practice. It’s like the oppression olympics except it’s not a joke, the people talking about it are entirely serious. Abuse is ok if ...
      - djakjxnanjak 7y ago
        I’m not saying it’s ok, just trying to answer the question. California is a place people love to live that’s been glorified by the media for decades, and is the seat of power of the ascendant tech industry. Of course people are going to bash it.
        malandrew 7y ago
        Even those in the ascendant tech industry, like myself, bash California because the California government not only does nothing to help the tech industry, they actively pursue policies that hurt the tech industry. If anything, my taxes are being used to fund idiots in the state capitol that hurt the value of the equity compensation I get from my employer. I really wish my employer were located in any state but California. Paying high taxes for a government that actively works against your interests just adds insult to injury.
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    My two cents having lived in CA for 12 years now: it boils down to the general perception that we residents pay a lot of money to the state to live here with not a whole lot to actually show for it. Our infrastructure sucks, our public primary schools mostly suck, homelessness is out of control, wildfires, water shortages, and power brown-outs seem to hit every year, etc. etc. And on top of that, our tax dollars seem more often than not to go to projects that are blatant rip-offs to the public (see: the "high speed" rail project through the central valley). Also from personal experience, California is about the worst state in the country I can think of to start a non-tech small business for multiple financial and labor reasons. Now, the reality is that California's monetary situation is complex and not entirely the fault of the legislature. Prop 13, voted in by the residents themselves 40 years ago, is a giant sandbag on the state's finances. California's wealth inequality is also frankly ridiculous [1] and causes a lot of problems. The vast majority of the state's residents are not wealthy and thus need a lot of support services from the state, so if you're a wealthy tech worker it seems like your money is disappearing, but a lot of it is going to support families who make less than a third of your salary. The state also runs some excellent colleges and a bunch of fantastic national parks, beaches, reserves, etc. that cost a lot of money. The net result is that if you're a high income earner, libertarian-leaning, or generally entrepreneurial, your perception can easily be that the state is a wealth-sucking behemoth funneling your exorbitant tax dollars into homeless shelters and welfare programs while your friends in Texas live in shiny new houses on acre lots with swimming pools, tennis clubs, and places that let you actually shoot guns while paying no income tax. As always, though, the full picture is more nuanced. [1] https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/412928-middle-class-is-disappearing-in-california-as-wealth-gap-grows https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/412928-middle-class-is-d...
    - refurb 7y ago
      The city and county of SF has a per capita budget almost double that of other US city-counties. Double. I would argue people living in SF certainly aren’t getting double the govt services.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        Well, no, most of the multiple in the budget goes straight to higher labor costs in SF; government services are extremely labor intensive and extremely localized, so have a cost very much driven by the cost of local labor.
  - pascalxus 7y ago
    Every state and city has it's own challenges: TX is hot, Chicago has crime, Detroit lost way too many jobs, Baltimore is drowning in drugs, etc. But CA is one of the few states that caused it's own problems: it's all self inflicted. Nearly all the problems CA has are due to it's inept voters/politicians: everything from prop 13 to the mountain of legislation inacted over the last 50 years to prevent housing from growing in a state that is actively attracting more and more people. And, the situation is becoming increasingly dire. 19% SPA adjusted poverty rate, one of the highest in the nation (despite having the highest salaries of any state). this lack of wealth affects everyone living in CA, even those that already own a home (because it drives up the cost of everything else too), but especially those that don't own a home. Although millions have fled CA, it's still not enough. It's due to the self inflicted nature of the problems that people don't have much sympathy for CA.
- davidgould 7y ago
  Yet somehow there is no mass migration of the rich to Kansas.

by Zanni 7y ago

malandrew 7y ago

If they do do this, I really hope they make it recurring because every time they do stuff like this, they give more of a reason for their most productive citizens to flee the state, which causes them to lose tax revenue they were banking on, which causes them to increase taxes to cover the shortfall from fleeing taxpayers, eventually creating a virtuous cycle that bankrupts the state. There is no state in the country that deserves to lose its most productive citizens and go bankrupt as much as California.

mdorazio 7y ago
Domestic emigrants from California are actually mostly the less wealthy/less income earning residents who can't afford to live there anymore [1], so it's basically the opposite of what you're saying. [1] https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265 https://lao.ca.gov/laoecontax/article/detail/265
knolax 7y ago
>There is no state in the country that deserves to lose its most productive citizens and go bankrupt as much as California. I'm genuinely curious as to why there is so much rancor towards California in this forum? Could you explain why they deserve this?
- djakjxnanjak 7y ago
  Punching up?
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Abuse is ok if you’re doing it to a disfavoured group that can plausibly be claimed to have greater social privilege on some access. For example if a black Yale graduate insults a white waitress that’s ok because as a white person she has privilege and he doesn’t. It’s a crass application of intersectionality theory, the only kind that exists in practice. It’s like the oppression olympics except it’s not a joke, the people talking about it are entirely serious. Abuse is ok if ...
    - djakjxnanjak 7y ago
      I’m not saying it’s ok, just trying to answer the question. California is a place people love to live that’s been glorified by the media for decades, and is the seat of power of the ascendant tech industry. Of course people are going to bash it.
      - malandrew 7y ago
        Even those in the ascendant tech industry, like myself, bash California because the California government not only does nothing to help the tech industry, they actively pursue policies that hurt the tech industry. If anything, my taxes are being used to fund idiots in the state capitol that hurt the value of the equity compensation I get from my employer. I really wish my employer were located in any state but California. Paying high taxes for a government that actively works against your interests just adds insult to injury.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  My two cents having lived in CA for 12 years now: it boils down to the general perception that we residents pay a lot of money to the state to live here with not a whole lot to actually show for it. Our infrastructure sucks, our public primary schools mostly suck, homelessness is out of control, wildfires, water shortages, and power brown-outs seem to hit every year, etc. etc. And on top of that, our tax dollars seem more often than not to go to projects that are blatant rip-offs to the public (see: the "high speed" rail project through the central valley). Also from personal experience, California is about the worst state in the country I can think of to start a non-tech small business for multiple financial and labor reasons. Now, the reality is that California's monetary situation is complex and not entirely the fault of the legislature. Prop 13, voted in by the residents themselves 40 years ago, is a giant sandbag on the state's finances. California's wealth inequality is also frankly ridiculous [1] and causes a lot of problems. The vast majority of the state's residents are not wealthy and thus need a lot of support services from the state, so if you're a wealthy tech worker it seems like your money is disappearing, but a lot of it is going to support families who make less than a third of your salary. The state also runs some excellent colleges and a bunch of fantastic national parks, beaches, reserves, etc. that cost a lot of money. The net result is that if you're a high income earner, libertarian-leaning, or generally entrepreneurial, your perception can easily be that the state is a wealth-sucking behemoth funneling your exorbitant tax dollars into homeless shelters and welfare programs while your friends in Texas live in shiny new houses on acre lots with swimming pools, tennis clubs, and places that let you actually shoot guns while paying no income tax. As always, though, the full picture is more nuanced. [1] https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/412928-middle-class-is-disappearing-in-california-as-wealth-gap-grows https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/412928-middle-class-is-d...
  - refurb 7y ago
    The city and county of SF has a per capita budget almost double that of other US city-counties. Double. I would argue people living in SF certainly aren’t getting double the govt services.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      Well, no, most of the multiple in the budget goes straight to higher labor costs in SF; government services are extremely labor intensive and extremely localized, so have a cost very much driven by the cost of local labor.
- pascalxus 7y ago
  Every state and city has it's own challenges: TX is hot, Chicago has crime, Detroit lost way too many jobs, Baltimore is drowning in drugs, etc. But CA is one of the few states that caused it's own problems: it's all self inflicted. Nearly all the problems CA has are due to it's inept voters/politicians: everything from prop 13 to the mountain of legislation inacted over the last 50 years to prevent housing from growing in a state that is actively attracting more and more people. And, the situation is becoming increasingly dire. 19% SPA adjusted poverty rate, one of the highest in the nation (despite having the highest salaries of any state). this lack of wealth affects everyone living in CA, even those that already own a home (because it drives up the cost of everything else too), but especially those that don't own a home. Although millions have fled CA, it's still not enough. It's due to the self inflicted nature of the problems that people don't have much sympathy for CA.
davidgould 7y ago
Yet somehow there is no mass migration of the rich to Kansas.