3 ms·

I don't mean to be cynical, but the answer may be 'whichever language wins'. Maybe Google wants to support Dart because its built in-house, while simultaneousl

by zengid 7y ago

I don't mean to be cynical, but the answer may be 'whichever language wins'. Maybe Google wants to support Dart because its built in-house, while simultaneously supporting Kotlin because it is so well loved by developers. Just a guess.

sandGorgon 7y ago
No. Mobile Dev is not anything close to web dev : developers don't have control of run time devices. Google is now mandating 64 bit APK for its apps (after years and years of trying) - that's a end device support issue. React native has had 64 bit problems for years. Viewmodel is a lifecycle aware component. Android Q will come with foldable-aware SDK. Will that be supported both on Dart & AndroidX/Kotlin ? Someone has to explain to Google management that an ecosystem that has gazillion different devices , that are not in developer control is a far different beast than web dev . Microsoft understands this better than anyone else. Look at their bug-compatibility spanning 30 years. We cannot afford a fight-to-the-finish when my customers are on a gazillion different devices with different hardware. NBU markets like India operate at a very different level of complexity than the two-device markets of North America.
- bsaul 7y ago
  As a developer you cannot expect that the technology you learned at university will be used forever ( or actually at all) in your professional life. Schools are supposed to teach you enough of the fundamentals to be able to adapt and learn the tech du jour on your own. The sooner your students learn that lesson the better.
  - sandGorgon 7y ago
    this is not an issue with two languages targeting the same SDK. you are mistaken on these aspects - I'm not sure if you are an android dev, so please forgive me if I'm pedantic. Kotlin vs Java is the situation you described. They both target the same underlying SDK. For example Pyspark vs Spark-scala. You can program in either, but you are still using the same paradigms - RDD, Graphframes, Dataframes. Flutter and AndroidX are not even the same paradigm - the lifecycle management is completely different. Android development forces you to think in terms of Activities and Fragments since they are a lifecycle model. Flutter changes it entirely. I'm pretty sure I can learn it fast, but the issue im asking is about investment. If you are running a company with 100 android devs, where will you invest your training and future architecture research. Or do you believe that the code of an app that's being used by a couple of million users for financial transactions can be ported to a new framework in a jiffy ? Just the testing and validation impact is huge. The issue is that we are just coming out of a Java -> Kotlin transition that required significant investment on our part. Because of Google making their stand very clear that Kotlin was the future. So now, this is very confusing.
    - bsaul 7y ago
      Sorry, i read your original post a bit too fast. Indeed, for corporations that’s a big question ( i thought you were teaching students, not hiring them)

by zengid 7y ago

sandGorgon 7y ago

No. Mobile Dev is not anything close to web dev : developers don't have control of run time devices. Google is now mandating 64 bit APK for its apps (after years and years of trying) - that's a end device support issue. React native has had 64 bit problems for years. Viewmodel is a lifecycle aware component. Android Q will come with foldable-aware SDK. Will that be supported both on Dart & AndroidX/Kotlin ? Someone has to explain to Google management that an ecosystem that has gazillion different devices , that are not in developer control is a far different beast than web dev . Microsoft understands this better than anyone else. Look at their bug-compatibility spanning 30 years. We cannot afford a fight-to-the-finish when my customers are on a gazillion different devices with different hardware. NBU markets like India operate at a very different level of complexity than the two-device markets of North America.

bsaul 7y ago
As a developer you cannot expect that the technology you learned at university will be used forever ( or actually at all) in your professional life. Schools are supposed to teach you enough of the fundamentals to be able to adapt and learn the tech du jour on your own. The sooner your students learn that lesson the better.
- sandGorgon 7y ago
  this is not an issue with two languages targeting the same SDK. you are mistaken on these aspects - I'm not sure if you are an android dev, so please forgive me if I'm pedantic. Kotlin vs Java is the situation you described. They both target the same underlying SDK. For example Pyspark vs Spark-scala. You can program in either, but you are still using the same paradigms - RDD, Graphframes, Dataframes. Flutter and AndroidX are not even the same paradigm - the lifecycle management is completely different. Android development forces you to think in terms of Activities and Fragments since they are a lifecycle model. Flutter changes it entirely. I'm pretty sure I can learn it fast, but the issue im asking is about investment. If you are running a company with 100 android devs, where will you invest your training and future architecture research. Or do you believe that the code of an app that's being used by a couple of million users for financial transactions can be ported to a new framework in a jiffy ? Just the testing and validation impact is huge. The issue is that we are just coming out of a Java -> Kotlin transition that required significant investment on our part. Because of Google making their stand very clear that Kotlin was the future. So now, this is very confusing.
  - bsaul 7y ago
    Sorry, i read your original post a bit too fast. Indeed, for corporations that’s a big question ( i thought you were teaching students, not hiring them)