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Facebook giving advertisers more access to user profile data than users expected is AGAIN the entire fucking point of the 2012 settlement. That Facebook was cap

Facebook giving advertisers more access to user profile data than users expected is AGAIN the entire fucking point of the 2012 settlement. That Facebook was capable of giving a relatively tiny ass ad company that access is AGAIN evidence that they had been in non compliance with that settlement for 7 years. And when selling access to user profile data is their entire value-add over any other given ad network AND rando-ass companies (which CA definitely was) can pay for data that Facebook told users was private: there is no untangling it from revenue from companies that didn't take advantage of that abuse of privacy, there is just what companies we know for sure and what companies could have.

tptacek 7y ago
That they did it AGAIN is the basis for there being a relatively significant fine in the first place. It does not follow that the purpose of that fine should be to cripple Facebook, not because crippling Facebook is bad, but because there is no reasonable basis in law to do so. Again, the significance of the fine is relative to the offense, not the entity. We also don’t fine Mark Zuckerberg 10MM for being late (AGAIN) for paying parking tickets.
- Avshalom 7y ago
  That they could do it again is clear evidence that they never complied. Separately a 4x, a 20 billion dollar, fine still wouldn't cripple them. Also I'm actually strongly for fining Zuckerberg personally 10mm for his personal traffic violations because the point of fines is punishment and deterrence and thus should be scaled to the individual.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    Nobody is debating whether they complied. They didn't. They got a fine. The fine is good. What we're debating is how big the fine should be, and my argument is, the notion that the fine should scale with Facebook's overall revenue, unmoored from the specific offense, is both irrational and dangerous.
    - Avshalom 7y ago
      How else do fine a company for a decade of knowingly bad behavior except looking at what they afford and setting it accordingly. This wasn't a whoopsie, it was a deliberate choice made consistently for years with the knowledge and budgeting that they might get fined for it. Also this behavior is inextricable from their overall revenue. Also also are we back to should as opposed to the FTC's legal authority? I think it should be enough to change the entire culture of Facebook because selling user data is their business model and so anything short of changing the entire culture of Facebook will just result in selling more and more user data as soon as no one is looking. I think it should be enough to prevent Facebook from not just repeating current behavior but to prevent them from coming up with functionally identical but legally distinct behavior. I think it should be enough that Facebook management starts playing whack-a-mole with unethical behavior before the government has to play it after a decade of damage.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        You can't just make things up because you don't like the company. If you can do that, so can people whose views you'd find odious.
        ionised 7y ago
        What is he making up? This seems like Facebook's MO as far as I can tell.

tptacek 7y ago

That they did it AGAIN is the basis for there being a relatively significant fine in the first place. It does not follow that the purpose of that fine should be to cripple Facebook, not because crippling Facebook is bad, but because there is no reasonable basis in law to do so. Again, the significance of the fine is relative to the offense, not the entity. We also don’t fine Mark Zuckerberg 10MM for being late (AGAIN) for paying parking tickets.

Avshalom 7y ago
That they could do it again is clear evidence that they never complied. Separately a 4x, a 20 billion dollar, fine still wouldn't cripple them. Also I'm actually strongly for fining Zuckerberg personally 10mm for his personal traffic violations because the point of fines is punishment and deterrence and thus should be scaled to the individual.
- tptacek 7y ago
  Nobody is debating whether they complied. They didn't. They got a fine. The fine is good. What we're debating is how big the fine should be, and my argument is, the notion that the fine should scale with Facebook's overall revenue, unmoored from the specific offense, is both irrational and dangerous.
  - Avshalom 7y ago
    How else do fine a company for a decade of knowingly bad behavior except looking at what they afford and setting it accordingly. This wasn't a whoopsie, it was a deliberate choice made consistently for years with the knowledge and budgeting that they might get fined for it. Also this behavior is inextricable from their overall revenue. Also also are we back to should as opposed to the FTC's legal authority? I think it should be enough to change the entire culture of Facebook because selling user data is their business model and so anything short of changing the entire culture of Facebook will just result in selling more and more user data as soon as no one is looking. I think it should be enough to prevent Facebook from not just repeating current behavior but to prevent them from coming up with functionally identical but legally distinct behavior. I think it should be enough that Facebook management starts playing whack-a-mole with unethical behavior before the government has to play it after a decade of damage.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      You can't just make things up because you don't like the company. If you can do that, so can people whose views you'd find odious.
      - ionised 7y ago
        What is he making up? This seems like Facebook's MO as far as I can tell.