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Maybe that is why I got downvoted. I would not have said "a man I interviewed." I would have said "a guy I interviewed" or "a candidate I interviewed." I associ

Maybe that is why I got downvoted. I would not have said "a man I interviewed." I would have said "a guy I interviewed" or "a candidate I interviewed." I associate the word guy and lady as the same thing, just gendered. I went with the feminine word because it is relevant to the thread - she chose to go into a known toxic environment for woman to, presumably, get a name on her resume. And after a quick thread elsewhere here, I've now learned that some folks don't like the word lady. :themoreyouknow:

JonGarfield 8y ago
Can't speak for anyone else, but lady ≠ guy: boy/girl guy/gal gentleman/lady man/woman male/female When people mix pairs, it is most often to single out the woman. One of the most egregious is guy/girl. The use of "lady" is old-fashioned, and raises a red flag about what other "old-fashioned" ideas the speaker might hold.
- satokema 8y ago
  No, you just purport "lady" to be old-fashioned because it furthers a political point. Keep your paws off my shared language. I want to be able to refer to people without googling for the polite terminology du jour, since even "woman" is offensive in some circles.
  - JonGarfield 8y ago
    No, I'm saying it has a connotation. In my experience, it is exclusively used by men who DO, demonstrably, have a certain view towards women. I do not like being referred to that way. It has ALWAYS come with other baggage that works its way into the workplace, however politely it is used. The red flag is based on lived experience, not an abstraction.
    - bwb 8y ago
      Ah that makes me sad, I grew up in the south with hippie parents and they all used lady normally. I wonder if that is a Southern thing they adopted or what?
    - sethammons 8y ago
      /me waves. Nice to meet you. I'm assuming I don't have this certain view towards woman. Hopefully, you can now remove your "exclusively" tag (absolutes seldom hold). I grew up with a strong woman figure in my mom and stories of my grandma. The top students in most my classes through high school were girls. I grew up _knowing_ that girls are smarter than guys. Full stop. I had to get to college and take education classes to learn about systemic issues affecting woman negatively in education. So my unconscious bias is that woman are more intelligent than their male counterparts, and I have to work to keep calibrated towards "people are just people, and guys can be just as smart as girls." And I use the word "lady" a lot. It never even occurred to me that it could hold negative connotations. Other words I use: fellas, folks, y'all, kiddo, boss, guys. Lastly, your "the red flag is based on lived experience, not an abstraction" -- beware of confirmation bias. When you look for something, sometimes you find it more often. Edit: to further clarify, when I use "lady" it quite literally means the same as "guy" with the caveat that the gender is taken into account. "You ladies going out for lunch?" is the same as "You guys going out for lunch?" with the difference being there would be no males in the first group. "I interviewed a lady" is the same in my head as "I interviewed a guy."
    - Gibbon1 8y ago
      I feel like you wanted to attack his point found nothing and then went after his choice of feminine pronoun.
    - OJFord 8y ago
      I would never describe someone respectable as 'the woman over there'. Most words have 'a connotation', it's not a reason not to use them. Offense at 'lady' and preference for 'woman' is baffling. Like most similar baffling things on HN, I'll assume this is an American (or even region within) thing.
    - ThrowawayR2 8y ago
      I showed your comment to my colleagues (a mixed group of men and women) and they were surprised to hear anyone had such a negative view of the word "lady". I suspect you're more or less alone in your opinion.
- muzani 8y ago
  "Woman" sounds a bit old, "girl" sounds a bit young. "Guys" (or "you guys") is slightly gender neutral, so many people would use "guy" as a gender neutral term, and avoid "gal" altogether. In my native language, there is a semi-formal term we use which is neither rigid nor offensive... "tuan" for men (Sir) and "cik puan" for women (Miss Mrs). For English, I think the closest to this is "lady", and this might be why many non-native English speakers use "sir".
  - gshdg 8y ago
    What’s old about “woman”? “Woman” means “adult female human being”. That includes 18-year-olds.
    - muzani 8y ago
      It should, but that's just not how society uses it. A google image search doesn't turn up many 18 year olds.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

JonGarfield 8y ago

Can't speak for anyone else, but lady ≠ guy: boy/girl guy/gal gentleman/lady man/woman male/female When people mix pairs, it is most often to single out the woman. One of the most egregious is guy/girl. The use of "lady" is old-fashioned, and raises a red flag about what other "old-fashioned" ideas the speaker might hold.

satokema 8y ago
No, you just purport "lady" to be old-fashioned because it furthers a political point. Keep your paws off my shared language. I want to be able to refer to people without googling for the polite terminology du jour, since even "woman" is offensive in some circles.
- JonGarfield 8y ago
  No, I'm saying it has a connotation. In my experience, it is exclusively used by men who DO, demonstrably, have a certain view towards women. I do not like being referred to that way. It has ALWAYS come with other baggage that works its way into the workplace, however politely it is used. The red flag is based on lived experience, not an abstraction.
  - bwb 8y ago
    Ah that makes me sad, I grew up in the south with hippie parents and they all used lady normally. I wonder if that is a Southern thing they adopted or what?
  - sethammons 8y ago
    /me waves. Nice to meet you. I'm assuming I don't have this certain view towards woman. Hopefully, you can now remove your "exclusively" tag (absolutes seldom hold). I grew up with a strong woman figure in my mom and stories of my grandma. The top students in most my classes through high school were girls. I grew up _knowing_ that girls are smarter than guys. Full stop. I had to get to college and take education classes to learn about systemic issues affecting woman negatively in education. So my unconscious bias is that woman are more intelligent than their male counterparts, and I have to work to keep calibrated towards "people are just people, and guys can be just as smart as girls." And I use the word "lady" a lot. It never even occurred to me that it could hold negative connotations. Other words I use: fellas, folks, y'all, kiddo, boss, guys. Lastly, your "the red flag is based on lived experience, not an abstraction" -- beware of confirmation bias. When you look for something, sometimes you find it more often. Edit: to further clarify, when I use "lady" it quite literally means the same as "guy" with the caveat that the gender is taken into account. "You ladies going out for lunch?" is the same as "You guys going out for lunch?" with the difference being there would be no males in the first group. "I interviewed a lady" is the same in my head as "I interviewed a guy."
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    I feel like you wanted to attack his point found nothing and then went after his choice of feminine pronoun.
  - OJFord 8y ago
    I would never describe someone respectable as 'the woman over there'. Most words have 'a connotation', it's not a reason not to use them. Offense at 'lady' and preference for 'woman' is baffling. Like most similar baffling things on HN, I'll assume this is an American (or even region within) thing.
  - ThrowawayR2 8y ago
    I showed your comment to my colleagues (a mixed group of men and women) and they were surprised to hear anyone had such a negative view of the word "lady". I suspect you're more or less alone in your opinion.
muzani 8y ago
"Woman" sounds a bit old, "girl" sounds a bit young. "Guys" (or "you guys") is slightly gender neutral, so many people would use "guy" as a gender neutral term, and avoid "gal" altogether. In my native language, there is a semi-formal term we use which is neither rigid nor offensive... "tuan" for men (Sir) and "cik puan" for women (Miss Mrs). For English, I think the closest to this is "lady", and this might be why many non-native English speakers use "sir".
- gshdg 8y ago
  What’s old about “woman”? “Woman” means “adult female human being”. That includes 18-year-olds.
  - muzani 8y ago
    It should, but that's just not how society uses it. A google image search doesn't turn up many 18 year olds.
deleted 8y ago
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