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Aimless men turning to antisocial behavior and violence is the biggest threat to society as a whole, but women suffer too in a non-monogamous world. They suffer

Aimless men turning to antisocial behavior and violence is the biggest threat to society as a whole, but women suffer too in a non-monogamous world. They suffer from being perceived as always available for sex (see the grievances driving #metoo), from their reproductive years being much shorter than men’s, and the results of that. Lifetime monogamy, for example, protects women from being left at 40 when their husband finds a younger girl. Maybe you think absolute freedom in these affairs is worth it nonetheless, but people before us had good reasons for how they organized their world, and we shouldn’t be so quick to discount it as just flowing from prejudice, ignorance, or evil.

elliekelly 7y ago
The benefit of monogamy to women is... not being abandoned by their husbands when they get older? Yikes. Also, your understanding of the #MeToo movement is... misguided. Sexual harassment and sexual assault have nothing to do with how many sexual partners a woman has or whether or not a woman is married. #MeToo is about shedding light on sexual harassment and assault when it has historically been a “taboo” subject to speak about publicly. It’s about letting women who have been harassed or assaulted know they aren’t alone and helping others realize how prevalent the issue is. For example, in this recent thread[1] about a survey of YC female founders you can see how shocked many people were by how common it was. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18221172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18221172
- marcoperaza 7y ago
  For the record, nothing I said is incompatible with what you’re saying. Something can both be the result of a wrongdoer’s blameworthy choice and the consequence of social structure. People don’t have a problem understanding crime in general that way, but for some reason the suggestion that sexual misconduct might have to do with changes in sexual norms is met is treated differently. E.g., there are ways of organizing our society that would make murders much more common. Suggesting that we not organize our society like that does that does not entail the suggestion that the murderers, who wouldn’t murder if the society were organized differently, wouldn’t be responsible for their actions. And yes, the world is full of people who have been left by a partner for no good reason other than the grass being greener on the other side, including, as just one example, women being left for younger women. There are some well-known instances of this in public life right now. When there is a stronger norm of lifelong monogamy, I think people are more likely to internalize their commitment and stick it out, just like they internalize other norms of rightful conduct. There are, allegedly, fairy tale marriages out there, but most of the older folks I know who have had successful, lifelong marriages will tell you that it wasn’t always easy or what they desired at every moment, but that at various points they stuck it out for the kids, out of obligation, out of love (the commitment, not the feeling).

elliekelly 7y ago

The benefit of monogamy to women is... not being abandoned by their husbands when they get older? Yikes. Also, your understanding of the #MeToo movement is... misguided. Sexual harassment and sexual assault have nothing to do with how many sexual partners a woman has or whether or not a woman is married. #MeToo is about shedding light on sexual harassment and assault when it has historically been a “taboo” subject to speak about publicly. It’s about letting women who have been harassed or assaulted know they aren’t alone and helping others realize how prevalent the issue is. For example, in this recent thread[1] about a survey of YC female founders you can see how shocked many people were by how common it was. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18221172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18221172

marcoperaza 7y ago
For the record, nothing I said is incompatible with what you’re saying. Something can both be the result of a wrongdoer’s blameworthy choice and the consequence of social structure. People don’t have a problem understanding crime in general that way, but for some reason the suggestion that sexual misconduct might have to do with changes in sexual norms is met is treated differently. E.g., there are ways of organizing our society that would make murders much more common. Suggesting that we not organize our society like that does that does not entail the suggestion that the murderers, who wouldn’t murder if the society were organized differently, wouldn’t be responsible for their actions. And yes, the world is full of people who have been left by a partner for no good reason other than the grass being greener on the other side, including, as just one example, women being left for younger women. There are some well-known instances of this in public life right now. When there is a stronger norm of lifelong monogamy, I think people are more likely to internalize their commitment and stick it out, just like they internalize other norms of rightful conduct. There are, allegedly, fairy tale marriages out there, but most of the older folks I know who have had successful, lifelong marriages will tell you that it wasn’t always easy or what they desired at every moment, but that at various points they stuck it out for the kids, out of obligation, out of love (the commitment, not the feeling).