4 ms·

> Lucretius’s poem, dedicated to Memmius, was an attempt to convince the boorish Roman that he was obliterating a site of importance. [Citation needed!!!] Thi

by bambax 8y ago

> Lucretius’s poem, dedicated to Memmius, was an attempt to convince the boorish Roman that he was obliterating a site of importance. [Citation needed!!!] This is so contrary to everything that we know about Memmius, Lucretius, and the place of poets in Ancient Rome that if you want to argue along those lines you'd need an extensive bibliography. In Rome, "poets" were craftsmen, not "authors" in the modern sense of the term. They worked for hire. Memmius, who was an extremely important man from one of the most famous families, placed an order for an epic poem to Lucretius, in order to appear more gracious and to advance his political career. Lucretius was happy to oblige. To think that Lucretius wrote this poem on his own accord and then dedicated it to Memmius in order to lecture him about his behavior is ludicrous.

chmod775 8y ago
> In Rome, "poets" were craftsmen, not "authors" in the modern sense of the term. They worked for hire. Memmius, who was an extremely important man from one of the most famous families, placed an order for an epic poem to Lucretius, in order to appear more gracious and to advance his political career. I wonder if we'd go back to mostly having this if copyright as we know it went away and no alternative way of paying artists (think Patreon-like platforms, governmental support, or unconditional basic income) existed. For example EVE Online has plenty of poets-for-hire and I sometimes pay one to write me a poem commemorating the loss of one of my ships. Makes you feel better about your loss and also looks good in your character bio... There's obviously still "contract" work being done by artists in the real world today as well, though probably proportionally less so. With US artists often signing away the rights to their works completely to their labels and publishers, which is technically the same, we're not even too far off I'd think. But this is not possible in some other legal systems. How "creative" were ancient cultures, where probably only the well-off or people with patrons/customers could spend meaningful time on art, in comparison to today's culture?
- dTal 8y ago
  The EVE Online poets-for-hire thing is absolutely fascinating. If something that tangential to gameplay arises organically... it makes me think that MMORPGs are an underrated technology for test driving social and government structures. Maybe we should have a sim-world that models our actual world as closely as possible, so that we can test-drive things like Basic Income in it.
hownottowrite 8y ago
It’s likely referring to Stearns hypothesis. Stearns, John Barker. "Lucretius and Memmius." Classical World 25 (1931): 67-68.
mcguire 8y ago
Cicero (http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=PerseusLatinTexts&getid=1&query=Cic.%20Fam.%2013.1 http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname...): "This Patron [the Epicurean], therefore, having written to me at Rome, begging me to reconcile you to him, and to ask you to grant him some ruined house or other once belonging to Epicurus,...to maintain his own honour and duty, the sanctity of a will, the prestige of Epicurus, the solemn injunction of Phaedrus, the home, the dwelling-place, the footprints of famous men." On the other hand, Lucretius died the year before Memmius became consul and a couple of years before he went into exile in Greece.
ErotemeObelus 8y ago
> To think that Lucretius wrote this poem on his own accord and then dedicated it to Memmius in order to lecture him about his behavior is ludicrous. This has to be the classiest most high-brow sentence I've ever read on Hacker News. Could have been straight from Fraiser.

by bambax 8y ago

chmod775 8y ago

> In Rome, "poets" were craftsmen, not "authors" in the modern sense of the term. They worked for hire. Memmius, who was an extremely important man from one of the most famous families, placed an order for an epic poem to Lucretius, in order to appear more gracious and to advance his political career. I wonder if we'd go back to mostly having this if copyright as we know it went away and no alternative way of paying artists (think Patreon-like platforms, governmental support, or unconditional basic income) existed. For example EVE Online has plenty of poets-for-hire and I sometimes pay one to write me a poem commemorating the loss of one of my ships. Makes you feel better about your loss and also looks good in your character bio... There's obviously still "contract" work being done by artists in the real world today as well, though probably proportionally less so. With US artists often signing away the rights to their works completely to their labels and publishers, which is technically the same, we're not even too far off I'd think. But this is not possible in some other legal systems. How "creative" were ancient cultures, where probably only the well-off or people with patrons/customers could spend meaningful time on art, in comparison to today's culture?

dTal 8y ago
The EVE Online poets-for-hire thing is absolutely fascinating. If something that tangential to gameplay arises organically... it makes me think that MMORPGs are an underrated technology for test driving social and government structures. Maybe we should have a sim-world that models our actual world as closely as possible, so that we can test-drive things like Basic Income in it.

hownottowrite 8y ago

It’s likely referring to Stearns hypothesis. Stearns, John Barker. "Lucretius and Memmius." Classical World 25 (1931): 67-68.

mcguire 8y ago

Cicero (http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname=PerseusLatinTexts&getid=1&query=Cic.%20Fam.%2013.1 http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi/citequery3.pl?dbname...): "This Patron [the Epicurean], therefore, having written to me at Rome, begging me to reconcile you to him, and to ask you to grant him some ruined house or other once belonging to Epicurus,...to maintain his own honour and duty, the sanctity of a will, the prestige of Epicurus, the solemn injunction of Phaedrus, the home, the dwelling-place, the footprints of famous men." On the other hand, Lucretius died the year before Memmius became consul and a couple of years before he went into exile in Greece.

ErotemeObelus 8y ago

> To think that Lucretius wrote this poem on his own accord and then dedicated it to Memmius in order to lecture him about his behavior is ludicrous. This has to be the classiest most high-brow sentence I've ever read on Hacker News. Could have been straight from Fraiser.