6 ms·

On trains and planes, my main critieria is that I arrive by the stated arrival time and therefore am pretty unfussed by stories about padding time etc - that's

by jnty 7y ago

On trains and planes, my main critieria is that I arrive by the stated arrival time and therefore am pretty unfussed by stories about padding time etc - that's more of a long term structural concern than something that will bother me on the day. I think operators have figured this is all most people really care about over time (perhaps excepting highly competitive routes.) You lose this ability to check timings with a non-fixed timings, and have to rely on 'oh, it's probably about half an hour from here to here' or google's guess at the real timetabled journey you'll do (which the operator hasn't really promised you at any stage.) People don't seem to mind this too much. I wonder if part of this is that waiting for a bus is usually less pleasant than being on one in countries where there is often cold/windy/rainy weather. That's something you don't really get with long-distance trains or planes. I'm going to be grumpy if I have to wait in the pouring rain for 15 minutes, even if I still make it to my appointment on time.

bluGill 7y ago
Planes and medium distance trains have the advantage of being a rare. You have already know that if you are late it will be a long time before the next one, so you take extra effort to be there early. With a bus if you miss on, being 10 minutes late by catching the next one isn't as big a deal: it is only 4-5 minutes if you hurry (getting the first bus would average getting you there 5 minutes early, a little running and you can take another minute off). That is all fine, but if the next bus is running late you cross the "magical" 5 minutes late mark and get into trouble for being late.
gpvos 7y ago
In Europe, train operators often have a target percentage, like 90%, of trains that must be on time[0] specified in their concession, with a system of fines or bonuses. So they have an incentive to put some padding in their schedules, since that will improve their lateness statistics. [0] Usually defined as being less than 5 minutes late or so.
- johnchristopher 7y ago
  And in Belgium those 5 minutes only count at the end of the line. It means that the train can be 15 minutes late and miss connections but it won't be considered late if it made up for the delay upon arriving at the terminus.
  - kiwijamo 7y ago
    In Auckland, New Zealand up until a few years ago it was the start of the trip that determined whethe or not the bus was considered late. Depart on time, but delayed en route and arrive at the end of the line 60 mins late? "On Time"!
- jnty 7y ago
  Good - so it keeps them honest. Are you suggesting they should be forced to publish timetables which they know will be wrong 10% of the time?
  - gpvos 7y ago
    I'd like them to ride a bit faster if they can, actually, yes. They play it way too safe at the moment.
chrisseaton 7y ago
Right - the arrival time is a no-later-than and that’s all I need. People complain about leaving a gate in an aeroplane and then sitting on the apron for a bit - who cares if you’re on the ground or in the air or even going backwards - I just care about my arrival time and don’t mind what you do as long as you hit that. I use a flight that’s regularly delayed by half an hour but still gets there half an hour early. Whatever - I make my connection every time.
- bluGill 7y ago
  I also care about departure time. If I arrive with one minute to spare (counting security and check in) but the plane leaves 2 minutes early I don't get their on time through no fault of my own. If I'm even a second late I accept it is my fault.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Airlines I've flown publish and abide the door-closing time. (For Delta domestic flights, it's 15 minutes before scheduled departure, 30 for int'l. I think they put 20 minutes on domestic boarding passes as a buffer against watch skew arguments.) I've seen the gate agents paying scrupulous attention to that, to ensure they don't close the gate early if any pax who have checked in haven't boarded.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  It depends a bit on where I'm sitting. If I'm in first class (most of the time I am these days) I don't really mind, but if I'm in steerage with my knees pressed up against the seat in front of me I want to spend the absolute minimum amount of time possible physically onboard the plane. Likewise I don't mind wasting time in an airport when I have a company per diem to pay for my drinks, but if it's on my own dime I'd rather not spend any longer than necessary sitting around in uncomfortable airport seats.
tobylane 7y ago
https://citymapper.com/directions?endcoord=51.50343%2C-0.113734&endname=Waterloo&startcoord=51.531532%2C-0.124089&startname=King%27s+Cross https://citymapper.com/directions?endcoord=51.50343%2C-0.113... I picked this route (between two major London stations) because there are several routes that use two tube lines. Next to the estimated time there's a faint yellow wifi-like symbol. If you click on any one of the options there's a yellow background section with the time to next three trains. The timings are based on both the timetable and the reality of a turn up and go service.
- michjedi 7y ago
  CityMapper are doing a really great job. Have you been tempted by their new card?

by jnty 7y ago

bluGill 7y ago

Planes and medium distance trains have the advantage of being a rare. You have already know that if you are late it will be a long time before the next one, so you take extra effort to be there early. With a bus if you miss on, being 10 minutes late by catching the next one isn't as big a deal: it is only 4-5 minutes if you hurry (getting the first bus would average getting you there 5 minutes early, a little running and you can take another minute off). That is all fine, but if the next bus is running late you cross the "magical" 5 minutes late mark and get into trouble for being late.

gpvos 7y ago

In Europe, train operators often have a target percentage, like 90%, of trains that must be on time[0] specified in their concession, with a system of fines or bonuses. So they have an incentive to put some padding in their schedules, since that will improve their lateness statistics. [0] Usually defined as being less than 5 minutes late or so.

johnchristopher 7y ago
And in Belgium those 5 minutes only count at the end of the line. It means that the train can be 15 minutes late and miss connections but it won't be considered late if it made up for the delay upon arriving at the terminus.
- kiwijamo 7y ago
  In Auckland, New Zealand up until a few years ago it was the start of the trip that determined whethe or not the bus was considered late. Depart on time, but delayed en route and arrive at the end of the line 60 mins late? "On Time"!
jnty 7y ago
Good - so it keeps them honest. Are you suggesting they should be forced to publish timetables which they know will be wrong 10% of the time?
- gpvos 7y ago
  I'd like them to ride a bit faster if they can, actually, yes. They play it way too safe at the moment.

chrisseaton 7y ago

Right - the arrival time is a no-later-than and that’s all I need. People complain about leaving a gate in an aeroplane and then sitting on the apron for a bit - who cares if you’re on the ground or in the air or even going backwards - I just care about my arrival time and don’t mind what you do as long as you hit that. I use a flight that’s regularly delayed by half an hour but still gets there half an hour early. Whatever - I make my connection every time.

bluGill 7y ago
I also care about departure time. If I arrive with one minute to spare (counting security and check in) but the plane leaves 2 minutes early I don't get their on time through no fault of my own. If I'm even a second late I accept it is my fault.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Airlines I've flown publish and abide the door-closing time. (For Delta domestic flights, it's 15 minutes before scheduled departure, 30 for int'l. I think they put 20 minutes on domestic boarding passes as a buffer against watch skew arguments.) I've seen the gate agents paying scrupulous attention to that, to ensure they don't close the gate early if any pax who have checked in haven't boarded.
0xffff2 7y ago
It depends a bit on where I'm sitting. If I'm in first class (most of the time I am these days) I don't really mind, but if I'm in steerage with my knees pressed up against the seat in front of me I want to spend the absolute minimum amount of time possible physically onboard the plane. Likewise I don't mind wasting time in an airport when I have a company per diem to pay for my drinks, but if it's on my own dime I'd rather not spend any longer than necessary sitting around in uncomfortable airport seats.

tobylane 7y ago

https://citymapper.com/directions?endcoord=51.50343%2C-0.113734&endname=Waterloo&startcoord=51.531532%2C-0.124089&startname=King%27s+Cross https://citymapper.com/directions?endcoord=51.50343%2C-0.113... I picked this route (between two major London stations) because there are several routes that use two tube lines. Next to the estimated time there's a faint yellow wifi-like symbol. If you click on any one of the options there's a yellow background section with the time to next three trains. The timings are based on both the timetable and the reality of a turn up and go service.

michjedi 7y ago
CityMapper are doing a really great job. Have you been tempted by their new card?