10 ms·

ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

131 points by ccnafr 7y ago

jumbopapa 7y ago
I'd be pretty shocked if any ProtonMail users used IE.
- realusername 7y ago
  Yes that seems a pretty odd combination, you want more secure email but using IE11 at the same time?
  - tux1968 7y ago
    Wouldn't be surprising to find that security conscious people are more apt to alter their user agent string or have a plugin that rotates it often to counter fingerprinting. There are probably fewer genuine IE11 users than what is being detected.
    - gruez 7y ago
      >or have a plugin that rotates it often to counter fingerprinting That's not going to fool any competent fingerprinting scripts. Blink/webkit/gecko have different javascript implementations so it's easy to cross-check whether your user agent header matches your "real" user agent. The only thing you're really going to fool are server side logs for user agent. If anything, using user agent spoofer is an entropy source (makes you stick out more) because most people don't spoof their user agent.
      - tux1968 7y ago
        You don't have to convince me, I agree. But the fact remains i'm pretty sure it accounts for some number of the reported IE11 users.
      - bduerst 7y ago
        Rotating the agent alone, right, but it's part of a larger set of tools usually. I don't think anyone is implying that security conscious users are only doing that.
      - ukyrgf 7y ago
        Which is all good in the browser, but the access logs are still going to say Internet Explorer.
  - rakoo 7y ago
    On the contrary, you could take the WhatsApp stance and say that everyone deserves a more secure email platform, not just those who know enough about technology to know that the default browser is not good enough. Not saying it's an easy task, of course, but that could be a goal for protonmail.
  - ljm 7y ago
    Until IE11 becomes so obscure that people stop scanning it for exploits!
- jaden 7y ago
  The typical scenario is forced use by enterprises where the employees have no choice. But now that Windows 7 is on its last legs, this may be less of an issue.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    You can have IE 11 on Windows 10. It's what I have, since the software we're working on use ActivX (to communicate with card reader software on the client machine); we should finally move to Chrome this year.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- jsnell 7y ago
  It's the first bullet point in their reasons for dropping the support. About 1% of their users are on IE.
  - mbell 7y ago
    On average IE 11 is around 2% in the US, obviously it'll vary based on the type of site but I would have expected ProtonMail to be even lower.
  - sbr464 7y ago
    Since there are so many users with browsers, I'd be curious if data is available that filters out consumer users/residential IP addresses etc. To better understand business browser usage and get more usable percentage figures.
Supermighty 7y ago
I understand them wanting to discontinue browsers that have very low usage and have discontinued support from Microsoft, but I can't help but feel a little sad about the narrowing browser engine ecosystem.
- throw03172019 7y ago
  At least they still support Edge. Although Edge is moving towards to a Chromium based engine..
- perardi 7y ago
  How exactly does it help anybody to to support little-used, out-of-date, insecure browsers?
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    It really depends, some place simply have infrastructure that you aren't going to change for whatever reason. So you may lose those clients, but that needs to be verified. Having said that, IE11 is still supported so it doesn't strike me as security risk. In fact, not updating a browser with features is likely going to improve security. A little-used browser is also less attractive to target for exploitation.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  Exactly how many browser engines do we need? There's currently Blink(Chrome|Edge|Brave), Gecko(Firefox), and WebKit(Safari and various OSS browsers). With web technology standards, it doesn't really make sense that there would be that much competition, so having 3 competing engines seems sufficient to me.
  - the1pato 7y ago
    WebKit* Webpack is a bundler.
    - ravenstine 7y ago
ahelwer 7y ago
Maybe I'll be able to reach other ProtonMail users here - does anyone else have persistent issues logging in to the web client? I use Firefox, LastPass, and Authy for 2FA. I have to try 6-7 times to log in every time, it drives me nuts. If it weren't for the mobile app I would have dumped this service long ago (for which I pay $50/year). This is the only site where I have issues logging in.
- keawade 7y ago
  I've been using ProtonMail for about a year and I've never had an issue logging in. The web client is the primary interface I use.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- ahakki 7y ago
  I’ve stopped using ProtonMail because the mobile client (iOS) kept logging me out at seemingly random intervals. With two passwords and TOTP it became a real hassle. Especially as notifications would stop, and I would only notice once I opened the app (why would I if I don’t get a notification?).
- a-ve 7y ago
  Might be an issue with LastPass. Bank login pages in my country acted weirdly with Lastpass. I've since switched to Bitwarden and haven't faced any issues.
- anonuser123456 7y ago
  Do you have multiple protonmail accounts? Lastpass behaves poorly when you have multiple accounts at the same domain. It will overwrite the password selection with the default/other account if you login too quickly.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  Why don't you try contacting protonmail's support rather than being offtopic here?
dieulot 7y ago
Slack dropped it last month: https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/115002037526-Minimum-requirements-for-using-Slack#-web-browsers https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/115002037526-Minimu...
m_st 7y ago
Nice for them! We launched a web application for construction companies in Switzerland a few months ago. And quickly learned the hard way that we have to improve the IE compatibility. The last 90 days IE11 was used for 36% of all traffic. Too bad the new Edge isn't called IE12 and automatically deployed as a replacement through Windows Update :-)
- watermelon0 7y ago
  Sadly, Edge is completely different from IE, and still cannot replace it in most cases. There are still too many public websites (e.g. online banking and other sites using digital signatures), and even more enterprise intranet sites, that require legacy ActiveX, Java applets, or Silverlight. I'm fairly sure Microsoft is not fan of IE either, but they will still be stuck with it for many years. The most they can probably do, is to not have it installed by default in future versions of Windows 10, but I have a feeling that it will stick around for longer than IE6.
  - trothamel 7y ago
    Do you have examples of this? My sense is why this had been the case, it's been several years since I've encountered a site that doesn't work with some combination of the HTML5 web stack and flash.
    - brianpgordon 7y ago
      Is this still current? https://www.zdnet.com/article/south-koreans-use-internet-explorer-its-the-law/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/south-koreans-use-internet-exp...
- sbr464 7y ago
  Part of the issue is the limited installation compatibility. You can't directly install Edge on Win7/8, also Server 2012, 2016, (used by some businesses as a terminal server or virtual desktop host. That has definitely slowed it's installation base.
- gridlockd 7y ago

131 points by ccnafr 7y ago

jumbopapa 7y ago

I'd be pretty shocked if any ProtonMail users used IE.

realusername 7y ago
Yes that seems a pretty odd combination, you want more secure email but using IE11 at the same time?
- tux1968 7y ago
  Wouldn't be surprising to find that security conscious people are more apt to alter their user agent string or have a plugin that rotates it often to counter fingerprinting. There are probably fewer genuine IE11 users than what is being detected.
  - gruez 7y ago
    >or have a plugin that rotates it often to counter fingerprinting That's not going to fool any competent fingerprinting scripts. Blink/webkit/gecko have different javascript implementations so it's easy to cross-check whether your user agent header matches your "real" user agent. The only thing you're really going to fool are server side logs for user agent. If anything, using user agent spoofer is an entropy source (makes you stick out more) because most people don't spoof their user agent.
    - tux1968 7y ago
      You don't have to convince me, I agree. But the fact remains i'm pretty sure it accounts for some number of the reported IE11 users.
    - bduerst 7y ago
      Rotating the agent alone, right, but it's part of a larger set of tools usually. I don't think anyone is implying that security conscious users are only doing that.
    - ukyrgf 7y ago
      Which is all good in the browser, but the access logs are still going to say Internet Explorer.
- rakoo 7y ago
  On the contrary, you could take the WhatsApp stance and say that everyone deserves a more secure email platform, not just those who know enough about technology to know that the default browser is not good enough. Not saying it's an easy task, of course, but that could be a goal for protonmail.
- ljm 7y ago
  Until IE11 becomes so obscure that people stop scanning it for exploits!
jaden 7y ago
The typical scenario is forced use by enterprises where the employees have no choice. But now that Windows 7 is on its last legs, this may be less of an issue.
- baud147258 7y ago
  You can have IE 11 on Windows 10. It's what I have, since the software we're working on use ActivX (to communicate with card reader software on the client machine); we should finally move to Chrome this year.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
jsnell 7y ago
It's the first bullet point in their reasons for dropping the support. About 1% of their users are on IE.
- mbell 7y ago
  On average IE 11 is around 2% in the US, obviously it'll vary based on the type of site but I would have expected ProtonMail to be even lower.
- sbr464 7y ago
  Since there are so many users with browsers, I'd be curious if data is available that filters out consumer users/residential IP addresses etc. To better understand business browser usage and get more usable percentage figures.

Supermighty 7y ago

I understand them wanting to discontinue browsers that have very low usage and have discontinued support from Microsoft, but I can't help but feel a little sad about the narrowing browser engine ecosystem.

throw03172019 7y ago
At least they still support Edge. Although Edge is moving towards to a Chromium based engine..
perardi 7y ago
How exactly does it help anybody to to support little-used, out-of-date, insecure browsers?
- gridlockd 7y ago
  It really depends, some place simply have infrastructure that you aren't going to change for whatever reason. So you may lose those clients, but that needs to be verified. Having said that, IE11 is still supported so it doesn't strike me as security risk. In fact, not updating a browser with features is likely going to improve security. A little-used browser is also less attractive to target for exploitation.
ravenstine 7y ago
Exactly how many browser engines do we need? There's currently Blink(Chrome|Edge|Brave), Gecko(Firefox), and WebKit(Safari and various OSS browsers). With web technology standards, it doesn't really make sense that there would be that much competition, so having 3 competing engines seems sufficient to me.
- the1pato 7y ago
  WebKit* Webpack is a bundler.
  - ravenstine 7y ago

ahelwer 7y ago

Maybe I'll be able to reach other ProtonMail users here - does anyone else have persistent issues logging in to the web client? I use Firefox, LastPass, and Authy for 2FA. I have to try 6-7 times to log in every time, it drives me nuts. If it weren't for the mobile app I would have dumped this service long ago (for which I pay $50/year). This is the only site where I have issues logging in.

keawade 7y ago
I've been using ProtonMail for about a year and I've never had an issue logging in. The web client is the primary interface I use.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
ahakki 7y ago
I’ve stopped using ProtonMail because the mobile client (iOS) kept logging me out at seemingly random intervals. With two passwords and TOTP it became a real hassle. Especially as notifications would stop, and I would only notice once I opened the app (why would I if I don’t get a notification?).
a-ve 7y ago
Might be an issue with LastPass. Bank login pages in my country acted weirdly with Lastpass. I've since switched to Bitwarden and haven't faced any issues.
anonuser123456 7y ago
Do you have multiple protonmail accounts? Lastpass behaves poorly when you have multiple accounts at the same domain. It will overwrite the password selection with the default/other account if you login too quickly.
craftyguy 7y ago
Why don't you try contacting protonmail's support rather than being offtopic here?

dieulot 7y ago

Slack dropped it last month: https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/115002037526-Minimum-requirements-for-using-Slack#-web-browsers https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/115002037526-Minimu...

m_st 7y ago

Nice for them! We launched a web application for construction companies in Switzerland a few months ago. And quickly learned the hard way that we have to improve the IE compatibility. The last 90 days IE11 was used for 36% of all traffic. Too bad the new Edge isn't called IE12 and automatically deployed as a replacement through Windows Update :-)

watermelon0 7y ago
Sadly, Edge is completely different from IE, and still cannot replace it in most cases. There are still too many public websites (e.g. online banking and other sites using digital signatures), and even more enterprise intranet sites, that require legacy ActiveX, Java applets, or Silverlight. I'm fairly sure Microsoft is not fan of IE either, but they will still be stuck with it for many years. The most they can probably do, is to not have it installed by default in future versions of Windows 10, but I have a feeling that it will stick around for longer than IE6.
- trothamel 7y ago
  Do you have examples of this? My sense is why this had been the case, it's been several years since I've encountered a site that doesn't work with some combination of the HTML5 web stack and flash.
  - brianpgordon 7y ago
    Is this still current? https://www.zdnet.com/article/south-koreans-use-internet-explorer-its-the-law/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/south-koreans-use-internet-exp...
sbr464 7y ago
Part of the issue is the limited installation compatibility. You can't directly install Edge on Win7/8, also Server 2012, 2016, (used by some businesses as a terminal server or virtual desktop host. That has definitely slowed it's installation base.
gridlockd 7y ago