4 ms·

Is it wrong to think of this at a very high level, where basically the internet as an system that relies on information to function properly has turned on its i

by geuis 16y ago

Is it wrong to think of this at a very high level, where basically the internet as an system that relies on information to function properly has turned on its immune system? I know this is a very meta idea, and its extremely easy to break this down to the component entities (Visa corporation, thousands of individuals, etc). But under the meta concept, wouldn't that be like individual t-cells talking to each other?

ra 16y ago
Interesting. And, like skynet, you can't switch it off.
- sorbus 16y ago
  Until we're hit with a coronal mass ejection; that would do a pretty good job of killing pretty much all advanced technology.
phlux 16y ago
I guess you could equate it to a certain level of DID/Schizophrenia - but that concept is still too one-dimensional to truly apply, as we are talking about very critical layers of a civilization here. The analogy drawn with immune system/cognitive issues assumes that the internet is a homogeneous whole (all participating parties are interdependent upon each other) - which they aren't. I'd more liken it to a neighborhood gang war: all parties rely on underlying infrastructure (the streets==DNS/connections, power etc) but can attack eachother. Aside from blowing up the streets(DNS/physical layer) this akin to two (or more) of the neighborhood gangs in a fight. You just cant hold a conversation with CC while he's getting pummeled. Yelling at him only makes matters worse. --- Though to go back to your meta definition of the internet turning on itself - thats kind of what information does; lies are destroyed by facts. In this case - we have wikileaks releasing facts which destroy the lies upon which public perception has been built. This is a good thing, albeit painful. In much the same way a cheating partner in a previously happy relationship would be. It sucks to find out, and you have emotional strife - but in the long term it is good to dissolve the relationship which is not based on real trust. I like the thought, as another put it her, that this raises the cost of censorship greatly. Wikileaks may be the only recourse we have against corruption in entrenched systems which are far too slow to change. While there is information that is important to keep secret - I think we've seen that there is too much risk in giving government carte blanche as has been evidenced for many many many decades. Our archetypes of governing should evolve much more quickly in the modern era, we should take the evolutions of thought and innovation that we are experiencing in the technology and scientific areas of humanity and apply them to other aspects of our civilization and then we might see some real progress. It would be great to apply Moore's Law here such that we can get over all this petty bullshit, become self sustainable and begin to colonize outside this beautiful planet before we destroy it, and ourselves.
ElliotH 16y ago
Typically the internet has been referred to as 'routing around' things like sites being taken down or things like the AACS encryption key being banned. I don't see it as too far a leap to say its an 'immune response'. But I think perhaps its more than that, because (unlike cells) all the individuals taking part are communicating a detailed intent.
Alex3917 16y ago
It's not crazy at all. The natural state of the universe is constant change, and the only things that remain in existence for any amount of time are those that have forces to resist change. The reason all our atoms don't just fly apart is that there are forces pushing them back every time they try. And the reason social systems exist is that they push back every time something tries to fuck with them. For example, right at the height of the holocaust the Albert Hoffman discovers the psychoactive properties of LSD, a drug that changes the social values of any population that uses it. The fact that LSD took over society right after the holocaust isn't a coincidence; that there were more scientific papers published about LSD than any other topic shows that something was seriously wrong with society and society was pushing back. In the same way, the very fact that WikiLeaks exists is evidence of the corruption of our current system. And the reason it continues to exist is because WikiLeaks itself is developing the ability to fight back when attacked. What Anonymous is doing is the result of an infinitely complex series calculations that are ultimately being done to maintain social homeostasis. edit: Newton's first is an inside job. Life is entropy. :-)

by geuis 16y ago

ra 16y ago

Interesting. And, like skynet, you can't switch it off.

sorbus 16y ago
Until we're hit with a coronal mass ejection; that would do a pretty good job of killing pretty much all advanced technology.

phlux 16y ago

I guess you could equate it to a certain level of DID/Schizophrenia - but that concept is still too one-dimensional to truly apply, as we are talking about very critical layers of a civilization here. The analogy drawn with immune system/cognitive issues assumes that the internet is a homogeneous whole (all participating parties are interdependent upon each other) - which they aren't. I'd more liken it to a neighborhood gang war: all parties rely on underlying infrastructure (the streets==DNS/connections, power etc) but can attack eachother. Aside from blowing up the streets(DNS/physical layer) this akin to two (or more) of the neighborhood gangs in a fight. You just cant hold a conversation with CC while he's getting pummeled. Yelling at him only makes matters worse. --- Though to go back to your meta definition of the internet turning on itself - thats kind of what information does; lies are destroyed by facts. In this case - we have wikileaks releasing facts which destroy the lies upon which public perception has been built. This is a good thing, albeit painful. In much the same way a cheating partner in a previously happy relationship would be. It sucks to find out, and you have emotional strife - but in the long term it is good to dissolve the relationship which is not based on real trust. I like the thought, as another put it her, that this raises the cost of censorship greatly. Wikileaks may be the only recourse we have against corruption in entrenched systems which are far too slow to change. While there is information that is important to keep secret - I think we've seen that there is too much risk in giving government carte blanche as has been evidenced for many many many decades. Our archetypes of governing should evolve much more quickly in the modern era, we should take the evolutions of thought and innovation that we are experiencing in the technology and scientific areas of humanity and apply them to other aspects of our civilization and then we might see some real progress. It would be great to apply Moore's Law here such that we can get over all this petty bullshit, become self sustainable and begin to colonize outside this beautiful planet before we destroy it, and ourselves.

ElliotH 16y ago

Typically the internet has been referred to as 'routing around' things like sites being taken down or things like the AACS encryption key being banned. I don't see it as too far a leap to say its an 'immune response'. But I think perhaps its more than that, because (unlike cells) all the individuals taking part are communicating a detailed intent.

Alex3917 16y ago

It's not crazy at all. The natural state of the universe is constant change, and the only things that remain in existence for any amount of time are those that have forces to resist change. The reason all our atoms don't just fly apart is that there are forces pushing them back every time they try. And the reason social systems exist is that they push back every time something tries to fuck with them. For example, right at the height of the holocaust the Albert Hoffman discovers the psychoactive properties of LSD, a drug that changes the social values of any population that uses it. The fact that LSD took over society right after the holocaust isn't a coincidence; that there were more scientific papers published about LSD than any other topic shows that something was seriously wrong with society and society was pushing back. In the same way, the very fact that WikiLeaks exists is evidence of the corruption of our current system. And the reason it continues to exist is because WikiLeaks itself is developing the ability to fight back when attacked. What Anonymous is doing is the result of an infinitely complex series calculations that are ultimately being done to maintain social homeostasis. edit: Newton's first is an inside job. Life is entropy. :-)