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Firefox and Chrome can't both be a monopoly.

by untog 8y ago

Ygg2 8y ago
Chrome is a monopoly. Firefox is just a backbench player at this point.
- ShrinkingWild 8y ago
  What resources have chrome monopolised to prevent other browsers from being provided? If chrome is a monopoly, why can I just go download firefox or opera or internet explorer? Chrome isn't a monopoly, it's just the most popular/best on the market at the moment.
  - Ygg2 8y ago
    Google used its influence via Web Search to expand into the field of Web Browsers. So Google used it's Web presence to recommend Chrome. Additionally, Google used it's Web Services (e.g. Google Mail, Google Docs, YouTube) to nudge users in the direction of Chrome. If YouTube works best with Chrome, people will flock to it. Finally, Chrome might be the popular choice, but the most popular choice can be quite heinous in other ways.
    - ShrinkingWild 8y ago
      Yes, Google promoted themselves on their own services, what's the problem with that? The influence gained from their prowess in web search was legitimate, I don't see a problem with them leveraging that. If chrome was garbage it wouldn't have helped. And yes, Google's products and services work best inside Google's browser. There's no problem there either, they can stop you using them in other browsers completely if they like, it's their property to do with as they please. You're free not to use chrome or any of Google's services, there are other options, so Google is not a monopoly.
      - Ygg2 8y ago
        > Yes, Google promoted themselves on their own services, what's the problem with that? > And yes, Google's products and services work best inside Google's browser. So, you're saying that you think what Internet Explorer is a great browser? Because everything Google did, Microsoft did (modulo monopoly lawsuit) back in its day. Back in its day, IE was the freshest kid on the block. Now the history repeats itself with Chrome. And I won't be surprised if in ten-twenty years Chrome will be treated like IE today. > You're free not to use chrome or any of Google's services, there are other options, so Google is not a monopoly. This doesn't make a monopoly. A monopoly doesn't need to own 100% of the market. What defines a monopoly is omnipresence and leveraging existing market imbalances to expand into other markets.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > So, you're saying that you think what Internet Explorer is a great browser? Because everything Google did, Microsoft did (modulo monopoly lawsuit) back in its day. But not vice versa, which is among the reasons the analogy is flawed. > a monopoly doesn't need to own 100% of the market. What defines a monopoly is omnipresence and leveraging existing market imbalances to expand into other markets. No, that's wrong. What defines a monopoly is absence of competition in practice (the common test for which is pricing power, which demonstrates whether the market sees “competitors” in a named market segment as actual competitors or players in isolated adjacent markets), not mere omnipresence. The leveraging you refer to is abuse of monopoly if a monopoly exists, not part of the what defines a monopoly.
        Ygg2 8y ago
        > No, that's wrong. What defines a monopoly is absence of competition in practice (the common test for which is pricing power, which demonstrates whether the market sees “competitors” in a named market segment as actual competitors or players in isolated adjacent markets) Are you saying in practice Chrome has competition? Safari doesn't count by your definition since it's essentially an isolated adjacent market (with is also shrinking due to Android expansion).

Firefox and Chrome can't both be a monopoly.

by untog 8y ago

Firefox and Chrome can't both be a monopoly.

Ygg2 8y ago

Chrome is a monopoly. Firefox is just a backbench player at this point.

ShrinkingWild 8y ago
What resources have chrome monopolised to prevent other browsers from being provided? If chrome is a monopoly, why can I just go download firefox or opera or internet explorer? Chrome isn't a monopoly, it's just the most popular/best on the market at the moment.
- Ygg2 8y ago
  Google used its influence via Web Search to expand into the field of Web Browsers. So Google used it's Web presence to recommend Chrome. Additionally, Google used it's Web Services (e.g. Google Mail, Google Docs, YouTube) to nudge users in the direction of Chrome. If YouTube works best with Chrome, people will flock to it. Finally, Chrome might be the popular choice, but the most popular choice can be quite heinous in other ways.
  - ShrinkingWild 8y ago
    Yes, Google promoted themselves on their own services, what's the problem with that? The influence gained from their prowess in web search was legitimate, I don't see a problem with them leveraging that. If chrome was garbage it wouldn't have helped. And yes, Google's products and services work best inside Google's browser. There's no problem there either, they can stop you using them in other browsers completely if they like, it's their property to do with as they please. You're free not to use chrome or any of Google's services, there are other options, so Google is not a monopoly.
    - Ygg2 8y ago
      > Yes, Google promoted themselves on their own services, what's the problem with that? > And yes, Google's products and services work best inside Google's browser. So, you're saying that you think what Internet Explorer is a great browser? Because everything Google did, Microsoft did (modulo monopoly lawsuit) back in its day. Back in its day, IE was the freshest kid on the block. Now the history repeats itself with Chrome. And I won't be surprised if in ten-twenty years Chrome will be treated like IE today. > You're free not to use chrome or any of Google's services, there are other options, so Google is not a monopoly. This doesn't make a monopoly. A monopoly doesn't need to own 100% of the market. What defines a monopoly is omnipresence and leveraging existing market imbalances to expand into other markets.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > So, you're saying that you think what Internet Explorer is a great browser? Because everything Google did, Microsoft did (modulo monopoly lawsuit) back in its day. But not vice versa, which is among the reasons the analogy is flawed. > a monopoly doesn't need to own 100% of the market. What defines a monopoly is omnipresence and leveraging existing market imbalances to expand into other markets. No, that's wrong. What defines a monopoly is absence of competition in practice (the common test for which is pricing power, which demonstrates whether the market sees “competitors” in a named market segment as actual competitors or players in isolated adjacent markets), not mere omnipresence. The leveraging you refer to is abuse of monopoly if a monopoly exists, not part of the what defines a monopoly.
        Ygg2 8y ago
        > No, that's wrong. What defines a monopoly is absence of competition in practice (the common test for which is pricing power, which demonstrates whether the market sees “competitors” in a named market segment as actual competitors or players in isolated adjacent markets) Are you saying in practice Chrome has competition? Safari doesn't count by your definition since it's essentially an isolated adjacent market (with is also shrinking due to Android expansion).