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Microsoft is going to ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10
- continuations 7y agoDoes GPL require Microsoft to open source Windows 10 then?
- IceWreck 7y agoNo, the only have to release the source for the custom kernel that they will use in their subsystem.
- s3cur3 7y agoPrevious discussion, with the official source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842817
- bastard_op 7y agoNevermind we tried to curb stomp you for the past 25 years. Haha.
- OneWordSoln 7y agoWhat was old is new again, embrace and embed may succeed where extinguish failed.
- pepoluan 7y agoThis. Probably. Quite soon enough people who don't know better will think that the Proper Way to run Linux is as WSL inside Windows 10...
- aceperry 7y agoI was thinking that when I read it. We're so far from the days when MS claimed that Linux had a lot of stolen and copyrighted code in the kernel.
- bubblethink 7y agoNot really. We don't have ntfs and exfat drivers in the kernel due to patent claims. Fedora can't even show fonts properly. This is just usual diplomacy. Nothing to get too happy (or too worked up) about.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sayusasugi 7y agoI have been noticing an uptick in pro Microsoft propaganda on Hacker News. Does Microsoft seriously think developers opinions can be swayed by some lip service after almost 3 decades of abuse?
- inflatableDodo 7y agoSounds great, however I had already assumed that in order to save money, Windows 10 was probably just an obfuscated linux kernel running some weird MS fork of Wine.
- analog31 7y agoThat's just in the "professional" version that costs extra. ;-)
- inflatableDodo 7y agoThanks for the appreciation. Is a tough crowd out there. ;p
- acct1771 7y agoTough? Discerning, perhaps, mate.
- inflatableDodo 7y agoPerhaps. Though discernment makes no accounting for taste.
- cududa 7y ago...you seriously thought this?
- inflatableDodo 7y agoI seriously thought this not very seriously.
- leemailll 7y agoDo they also offer package management?
- chrisdfrey 7y agoSome of the existing WSL distros (like Ubuntu) already include package managers (like apt).
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y agoThis is just kernel support; you use whatever userspace you want on top.
- techntoke 7y agoFor Windows? No, that will continue to suck.
- machz 7y agobrew (used on MacOS) is working on extending support to Windows and Linux.
- daotoad 7y agoWorld domination achieved.
- OneWordSoln 7y agoNot on my boxen. Never again.
- sixothree 7y agoYou run Chrome?
- OneWordSoln 7y agoFF on Debian and Ubuntu.
- htfy96 7y ago* Fx
- AtHeartEngineer 7y agoI want native bash commands in Windows shell. I know powershell supports some commands, but and actual Linux shell to interface with the rest of windows will be awesome. WSL is getting there, sucks I've gotta install Python and node/npm twice.
- tenebrisalietum 7y agothere's cygwin, I think it's still active.
- TheChaplain 7y agoIt is, I use it daily and it's very good.
- pepoluan 7y agoI second (third?) that.
- echeese 7y agoThe interop is pretty good, I don't have cowsay on Windows and I don't have node in wsl, but this still works: C:\Users\Ryan>wsl cowsay hello _______ < hello > ------- \ ^__^ \ (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || C:\Users\Ryan>wsl ryan@DESKTOP:/mnt/c/Users/Ryan$ notepad.exe test.js ryan@DESKTOP:/mnt/c/Users/Ryan$ node.exe test.js hello, world!
- YeGoblynQueenne 7y agoDo you need to do something special for "wsl" to send a command to wsl? I only get an error on my win 10 machine (that "wsl" is not a known command/let).
- echeese 7y agoDo you have WSL installed? It's not part of Windows by default (at least not since I checked)
- stevehiehn 7y agoMakes you wonder if the endgame is to eventually just gut windows completely and have a Microsoft GUI running on Linux.
- naikrovek 7y agoIt does not make anyone wonder that. No one who knows Windows, anyway.
- fxfan 7y agoReminds me of the time there was a comment wondering what the OS on Microsoft watch was- someone responded with a speculation - an erlang vm with js for gui
- ulkesh 7y agoInterestingly, I have it on good authority from someone who works at MS that they are experimenting exactly with that: Windows as a desktop environment running on top of Linux.
- acct1771 7y agoThis is a bold claim - is your friend sure they're not "just" sharing some system calls, but still running both kernels?
- ulkesh 7y agoI said they’re experimenting with Windows simply being a desktop environment on top of Linux. Only the Linux kernel would be involved. NTOSKRNL wouldn’t be present. I suspect if they’re trying to get native Windows apps to run, some call translation layer would have to exist (similar to what WINE provides). Perhaps it is a bold claim, I haven’t seen it first hand. And it certainly has me hoping it goes much further than experimentation. I’d love to have a Windows environment on top of ext4 or zfs and the Linux kernel.
- 7y ago
- cs702 7y ago> Microsoft’s integration of Linux in Windows 10 will interface with a userspace installed via the Windows Store... Given Microsoft's history, I can't help but wonder if this wholehearted embrace of Linux is part of a classic Microsoft embrace-extend-extinguish strategy.[a] Is the endgame a Windows-only userspace layered on top of the Linux kernel? [a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
- Quiark 7y agoI don't think they care about Windows that much any more. They even dissolved the team and it's now a part of Azure team / Office team.
- hestefisk 7y ago“Don’t care” is probably a stretch. There is still a ton of corporates who pay MS license feee for Windows. It’s still a huge part of core revenue, but future long term. revenue streams will come from services and new platforms.
- mr_toad 7y agoI think those corporations care more about ADS and all the user management infrastructure than they do about Windows desktop. If they could manage Linux desktops with group policy settings they wouldn’t need Windows at all.
- cwyers 7y agoAll it takes is one application that's Windows-only and a lot of places are locked in. And maybe it's an app that isn't made anymore, or maybe it's an internal line-of-business app with no ready off-the-shelf replacement.
- kelnos 7y agoThat wouldn't necessarily be a problem, though. They wouldn't kill the Win32/Win64 APIs or anything else that people tend to write Windows applications to, they would just replace NT with Linux and adapt the Windows APIs to run on Linux (basically WINE, but presumably Microsoft could do a more complete/compatible job due to all the institutional knowledge they have). Some apps still wouldn't work, like anything that calls NT APIs, but they could make that work with a compatibility layer until they're ported. I agree that this seems a bit unlikely, though. But who knows where their priorities may lie in the future?
- danalec 7y agosystemd versus windows
- anticensor 7y agosystemd vs svchost.exe
- tracker1 7y agoIf systemd works to start linux software with windows, before desktop login and the features PodMan needs are there, I'm looking forward to it.
- ryan-allen 7y agoI'm very excited about this. It's like everything I wanted all in one operating system!
- leshokunin 7y agoWonder what this will mean. Is the ability to run Linux commands and programs going to be there just so people who like Terminal can do their job without VMs? Is this a deeper move towards making apps more universal? That would remind me of when Mac OS migrated to x86 in some fashion.
- bitxbit 7y agoThis is helpful for some of us doing data science and ML with consumer-grade GPUs.
- Quiark 7y agoSo how will the kernel run? I guess virtualised behind the scenes using Hyper-V and accessed using the Windows Terminal? Seems that this should replace the WSL project entirely which is kind of a shame because it was pretty cool. Also, unlike others here, I'm not a fan of a computing monoculture where everything is UNIX going forward.
- zeusk 7y agoYou might find this interesting, https://youtu.be/tG8R5SQGPck?t=24m50s https://youtu.be/tG8R5SQGPck?t=24m50s Checkout the lightweight VMs (start around 38:00)
- shmerl 7y agoIt replaces Wine-like WSL with some virtualization. Apparently performance of WSL didn't cut it comparing to VMs.
- ridiculous_fish 7y agoWill the kernels be able to interact at all outside of the filesystem? For example could I write a Linux program which opens a Windows browser?
- zeusk 7y agoThis already works with WSL1.0, so I'd consider it to be a regression if not. I just verified with opening vscode from bash in a windows directory from WSL using `code /mnt/c/Users/zeusk/Desktop/memester` Also, output of `which code`: > zeusk@DESKTOP-F776PPQ:/mnt/c/Users/zeusk/Desktop$ which code > /mnt/c/Users/zeusk/AppData/Local/Programs/Microsoft VS Code/bin/code
- ridiculous_fish 7y agoWSL1 shares the kernel, but WSL2 uses a hypervisor, so IPC is likely to take a hit.
- chx 7y agoWell, WSL1 has real bad performance with lots of small files and they say their internal performance tests unzipping a tarball 20x faster and git clone or npm install going 2-5 times faster. Not sure what IPC would make slower...?
- ggm 7y agoAnyone else here remember "eunice" on Vax/VMS?
- thrownaway954 7y agooh man... if we can finally use native ruby gems on windows and host the sites through iis without the performance hit... this will be a game changer.
- dzamo_norton 7y agoGonna be a big download.
- mmcdonald3009 7y agoOpenSuSE Leap 15 anyone ???