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Well theres motorsport where they have identical cars. If we take F1 you can still race against your team mate. And team mates are fairly loose concepts in F1.

Well theres motorsport where they have identical cars. If we take F1 you can still race against your team mate. And team mates are fairly loose concepts in F1. Team orders weren't allowed for a long time, disobeying team orders isn't unusual. But yes most of the time it's the guy with the best car that wins.

maxxxxx 8y ago
An F1 driver is also part of team leadership and responsible for building the team. That was schumacher’s strength and a weakness of Alonso from what I have read.
- singlow 8y ago
  The extent of the drivers role in the team varies drastically. Sure, as Schumacher move on in his career this was true. When a team brings on an experienced driver to a young team this is probably very true, such as Kimi this year. But even Hamilton, with several championships, is probably only somewhat involved in decision making, not leading it. And younger guys like Le Clerc are probably not involved in team decisions beyond the tech setup of their own car in any meaningful way. That's not to say either of them is not capable of contributing in that way, but they are on teams with plenty of proven experience at all levels, so it's just not as necessary. Alonso was on a team that struggled for several years at McClaren with a lot of leadership turnover, so they would have probably benefited from that quality, although I don't really know whether their failings had anything to do with a weakness of Alonso's in that regard, but I generally got the impression he was not the personality to really get everyone motivated or inspired.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Read about Schumacher. He made a point of shaking hands with every mechanic, he knew about their personal lives. Pretty much like a politician. He also was also able to take the best people with him. Like Ross Brawn and others.
singlow 8y ago
I don't think the team aspect is as much about the two drivers who are on the same team as it is about the rest of the crew. The two drivers generally share most of the other personnel on a team, but even with the same car and the same crew, one driver on the team usually out-performs the other consistently. In some cases, especially as the season matures, one of the drivers becomes a support driver and will sacrifice his own race outcome to benefit the teammate with a better championship total, but it doesn't come into play all that often. Even when Botas let Hamilton by during a race last year because Hamilton might have had a better chance of catching the Ferrari ahead, Hamilton gave him the spot back after being unsuccessful, rather than taking the higher point finish for himself while he was battling the Ferrari for championship lead. So while they will cooperate if they can increase the overall team position, they try hard not to just hand position over to a team mate to benefit the individual championship points total. That kind of collusion would be heavily criticized even though probably not illegal under current rules.
CydeWeys 8y ago
The drivers aren't identical though, and that makes a huge difference. Skill matters a lot in racing.

maxxxxx 8y ago

An F1 driver is also part of team leadership and responsible for building the team. That was schumacher’s strength and a weakness of Alonso from what I have read.

singlow 8y ago
The extent of the drivers role in the team varies drastically. Sure, as Schumacher move on in his career this was true. When a team brings on an experienced driver to a young team this is probably very true, such as Kimi this year. But even Hamilton, with several championships, is probably only somewhat involved in decision making, not leading it. And younger guys like Le Clerc are probably not involved in team decisions beyond the tech setup of their own car in any meaningful way. That's not to say either of them is not capable of contributing in that way, but they are on teams with plenty of proven experience at all levels, so it's just not as necessary. Alonso was on a team that struggled for several years at McClaren with a lot of leadership turnover, so they would have probably benefited from that quality, although I don't really know whether their failings had anything to do with a weakness of Alonso's in that regard, but I generally got the impression he was not the personality to really get everyone motivated or inspired.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Read about Schumacher. He made a point of shaking hands with every mechanic, he knew about their personal lives. Pretty much like a politician. He also was also able to take the best people with him. Like Ross Brawn and others.

singlow 8y ago

I don't think the team aspect is as much about the two drivers who are on the same team as it is about the rest of the crew. The two drivers generally share most of the other personnel on a team, but even with the same car and the same crew, one driver on the team usually out-performs the other consistently. In some cases, especially as the season matures, one of the drivers becomes a support driver and will sacrifice his own race outcome to benefit the teammate with a better championship total, but it doesn't come into play all that often. Even when Botas let Hamilton by during a race last year because Hamilton might have had a better chance of catching the Ferrari ahead, Hamilton gave him the spot back after being unsuccessful, rather than taking the higher point finish for himself while he was battling the Ferrari for championship lead. So while they will cooperate if they can increase the overall team position, they try hard not to just hand position over to a team mate to benefit the individual championship points total. That kind of collusion would be heavily criticized even though probably not illegal under current rules.

CydeWeys 8y ago

The drivers aren't identical though, and that makes a huge difference. Skill matters a lot in racing.