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I was planning to write a cyberpunk dystopian short story which the nation banned all non-autonomous vehicles (basically, mega-corporations like Waymo and Uber

I was planning to write a cyberpunk dystopian short story which the nation banned all non-autonomous vehicles (basically, mega-corporations like Waymo and Uber have lobbied the government and spun the media with keywords such as 'safety' and 'efficiency'). But then there is a rag-tag group of people (car enthusiasts and motorcyclers) who demand the right to driving: to feel the winds and speed flowing over their shoulders as they indulge in the absolute freedom of movement. So they occasionally drive secretly and illegally, out of the eyes of the cameras of Waymo. The story starts with a chase scene with the Google police cars, which are also 100% autonomous. The rebels have managed to fake them by camouflaging their vehicles, but the police are now using special sonar technology which augments their camera vision. (And then one of the rebels know how to hack inside the autonomous-driving deep learning system, and then yadda yadda...) But now this fucking "right to drive" thing is actually becoming a fucking reality. The future is, simply cyberpunk. Help me, I'm getting headaches.

spaced-out 7y ago
Would your story also include incidents where innocent people are maimed or killed in accidents caused by those "rebels" while they were "feeling the winds and speed flowing over their shoulders..."?
300bps 7y ago
But now this fucking "right to drive" thing is actually becoming a fucking reality. 1.25 million people die per year from auto accidents in the world with as many as 20-50 million additional people injured or disabled. Source: https://www.asirt.org/safe-travel/road-safety-facts/ https://www.asirt.org/safe-travel/road-safety-facts/ The average car utilization is less than 4.5%. For over 95% of the time, most cars are just sitting there doing nothing. Source: https://www.reinventingparking.org/2013/02/cars-are-parked-95-of-time-lets-check.html https://www.reinventingparking.org/2013/02/cars-are-parked-9... Cars are the second largest expense for most people with the cost of the car, cost of maintenance, registration, insurance, parking, etc. coming only behind their residence in terms of cost. Manually driven cars are a wasteful luxury that kill over a million people per year. I can't wait until they go away.
- btrettel 7y ago
  > The average car utilization is less than 4.5%. For over 95% of the time, most cars are just sitting there doing nothing. This is roughly true of bikes as well, but I've never seen it used as an argument against cycling. There is one important difference: Bikes are much smaller than cars so they take up less space when parked. But I haven't seen that mentioned in this context. I am a cyclist for what it's worth.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    Bikes aren't allowed on freeways, so there are similar restrictions on cyclists.
  - dheera 7y ago
    I'm a bike commuter too, but I stay on dedicated bike paths whenever possible, which is about 90% of my commute. I don't have a way of measuring it, but my intuition says that my chance of death while cycling on a dedicated bike path is much less than if I were driving a car on the road. I do realize I'm pretty lucky to be in that situation, but for safety reasons I'm a big fan of generally having more dedicated bike paths or at least barrier-separated bike lanes around town. In a lot of Asian and European cities it is pretty standard and it massively improves safety.
- sevensor 7y ago
  Like the sibling comment, I'm a frequent bicycle commuter. I have deep reservations about car culture. But I'm strongly in favor of continuing to allow manual operation for motor vehicles. My fear is that, in a fully self-driving world, cyclists will be banned from city streets or forced to carry transponders "for our own safety". This shrinks your individual autonomy to "places you can walk safely" and places way too much faith in automated systems.
  - btrettel 7y ago
    To be honest, I'd buy a transponder if it meant self-driving cars couldn't hit me as a cyclist. I'd strongly oppose transponder requirements and cycling bans. My impression from self-driving car advocates is that they are okay with cycling, e.g., see here: https://www.sharedmobilityprinciples.org/ https://www.sharedmobilityprinciples.org/ > Cities shall prioritize walking, cycling, public transport and other efficient shared mobility
dheera 7y ago
I actually don't think it is dystopian. Today, you cannot ride a horse on most public roads in the car lanes. For those that like to ride horses, there are now parks for you to do that in. The same thing will happen with autonomous cars. When the roads are fully autonomous the cars will be going maybe twice as fast as they are now, and much safer at the same time. For people who love driving manually for fun, there will be "auto parks" just like the horse parks of today.
- bluGill 7y ago
  Try getting out in the country a little on a weekend and you will discover that horses are common on roads. By little I meant distance: far enough that you can own enough land for a horse, close enough that you can get into the city for a real job. (Horses are expensive to own, farmers generally find ATVs work better) There are horse parks as well. Some people ride their bike on the road for fun (not to be confused with those who ride for some other purpose), some people ride trails for fun.
sevensor 7y ago
Ever heard the song "Red Barchetta" by Rush?
mikestew 7y ago
The rock band Rush beat you to it: https://www.rush.com/songs/red-barchetta/ https://www.rush.com/songs/red-barchetta/
- diggernet 7y ago
  And Richard Foster beat them to it: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadandtrack.htm http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadand...
  - myself248 7y ago
    Holy crap. That anticipates the experience every Prius owner encounters once in a while from lifted pickups. Fortyfive years ago.
tzs 7y ago
If the self-driving vehicles are also tied into a common communication and planning system, so that all the self-driving vehicles in an area coordinate with each other, such a system could be designed to accommodate people who want to take manual control. Suppose, say, you and a friend would like to do some street racing against each other. You could tell the system, and it could make some minor adjustments to traffic timing to clear a course for you and your friend to race on, and then switch your cars to manual control. (Actually, it wouldn't have to clear your whole course. It really just needs a buffer around your cars). During the race, the self-driving system in your cars could monitor your driving, and take over if you are starting to lose control, where "lose control" is defined as put the car in a state that the self-driving system cannot safely stop from. If the self-driving systems are good enough that they are better at extreme driving than you are, then you'd be able to push your limits in manual mode, because the self-driving system would only have to intervene if you've pushed beyond your skill level and would be heading for a crash.

spaced-out 7y ago

Would your story also include incidents where innocent people are maimed or killed in accidents caused by those "rebels" while they were "feeling the winds and speed flowing over their shoulders..."?

300bps 7y ago

But now this fucking "right to drive" thing is actually becoming a fucking reality. 1.25 million people die per year from auto accidents in the world with as many as 20-50 million additional people injured or disabled. Source: https://www.asirt.org/safe-travel/road-safety-facts/ https://www.asirt.org/safe-travel/road-safety-facts/ The average car utilization is less than 4.5%. For over 95% of the time, most cars are just sitting there doing nothing. Source: https://www.reinventingparking.org/2013/02/cars-are-parked-95-of-time-lets-check.html https://www.reinventingparking.org/2013/02/cars-are-parked-9... Cars are the second largest expense for most people with the cost of the car, cost of maintenance, registration, insurance, parking, etc. coming only behind their residence in terms of cost. Manually driven cars are a wasteful luxury that kill over a million people per year. I can't wait until they go away.

btrettel 7y ago
> The average car utilization is less than 4.5%. For over 95% of the time, most cars are just sitting there doing nothing. This is roughly true of bikes as well, but I've never seen it used as an argument against cycling. There is one important difference: Bikes are much smaller than cars so they take up less space when parked. But I haven't seen that mentioned in this context. I am a cyclist for what it's worth.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Bikes aren't allowed on freeways, so there are similar restrictions on cyclists.
- dheera 7y ago
  I'm a bike commuter too, but I stay on dedicated bike paths whenever possible, which is about 90% of my commute. I don't have a way of measuring it, but my intuition says that my chance of death while cycling on a dedicated bike path is much less than if I were driving a car on the road. I do realize I'm pretty lucky to be in that situation, but for safety reasons I'm a big fan of generally having more dedicated bike paths or at least barrier-separated bike lanes around town. In a lot of Asian and European cities it is pretty standard and it massively improves safety.
sevensor 7y ago
Like the sibling comment, I'm a frequent bicycle commuter. I have deep reservations about car culture. But I'm strongly in favor of continuing to allow manual operation for motor vehicles. My fear is that, in a fully self-driving world, cyclists will be banned from city streets or forced to carry transponders "for our own safety". This shrinks your individual autonomy to "places you can walk safely" and places way too much faith in automated systems.
- btrettel 7y ago
  To be honest, I'd buy a transponder if it meant self-driving cars couldn't hit me as a cyclist. I'd strongly oppose transponder requirements and cycling bans. My impression from self-driving car advocates is that they are okay with cycling, e.g., see here: https://www.sharedmobilityprinciples.org/ https://www.sharedmobilityprinciples.org/ > Cities shall prioritize walking, cycling, public transport and other efficient shared mobility

dheera 7y ago

I actually don't think it is dystopian. Today, you cannot ride a horse on most public roads in the car lanes. For those that like to ride horses, there are now parks for you to do that in. The same thing will happen with autonomous cars. When the roads are fully autonomous the cars will be going maybe twice as fast as they are now, and much safer at the same time. For people who love driving manually for fun, there will be "auto parks" just like the horse parks of today.

bluGill 7y ago
Try getting out in the country a little on a weekend and you will discover that horses are common on roads. By little I meant distance: far enough that you can own enough land for a horse, close enough that you can get into the city for a real job. (Horses are expensive to own, farmers generally find ATVs work better) There are horse parks as well. Some people ride their bike on the road for fun (not to be confused with those who ride for some other purpose), some people ride trails for fun.

sevensor 7y ago

Ever heard the song "Red Barchetta" by Rush?

mikestew 7y ago

The rock band Rush beat you to it: https://www.rush.com/songs/red-barchetta/ https://www.rush.com/songs/red-barchetta/

diggernet 7y ago
And Richard Foster beat them to it: http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadandtrack.htm http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadand...
- myself248 7y ago
  Holy crap. That anticipates the experience every Prius owner encounters once in a while from lifted pickups. Fortyfive years ago.

tzs 7y ago

If the self-driving vehicles are also tied into a common communication and planning system, so that all the self-driving vehicles in an area coordinate with each other, such a system could be designed to accommodate people who want to take manual control. Suppose, say, you and a friend would like to do some street racing against each other. You could tell the system, and it could make some minor adjustments to traffic timing to clear a course for you and your friend to race on, and then switch your cars to manual control. (Actually, it wouldn't have to clear your whole course. It really just needs a buffer around your cars). During the race, the self-driving system in your cars could monitor your driving, and take over if you are starting to lose control, where "lose control" is defined as put the car in a state that the self-driving system cannot safely stop from. If the self-driving systems are good enough that they are better at extreme driving than you are, then you'd be able to push your limits in manual mode, because the self-driving system would only have to intervene if you've pushed beyond your skill level and would be heading for a crash.