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ICE cars cant compete with convenience of: * not needing to refuel * less maintenance needed * not spewing particulates in air etc (if you care about what you b

by llukas 7y ago

ICE cars cant compete with convenience of: * not needing to refuel * less maintenance needed * not spewing particulates in air etc (if you care about what you breathe)

calvinmorrison 7y ago
* not needing to refuel no, we're taking Soothing30MinuteRelaxingBreaksAt200MileIntervalsAwesomeHappy™ brought to you by Tesla™ instead
- zaroth 7y ago
  I don't know about you. I've driven the last 5 months / 5,000 miles without using a Supercharger once, except for the first day I took delivery just to try it out. It's there when I need it for the long road trip. But daily life is effectively refueling-free. What percentage of round-trips are under 200 miles? NHTS recorded the distance from ~750,000 car trips in 2009 and found the 95th percentile is 30 miles, and the 99th percentile is 70 miles. Somewhere on the order of 1 in 1,000 trips needs a Supercharger stop along the way. [1] - https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips
  - bluGill 7y ago
    I go on vacation a few times a year. Renting a car just for that is more expensive than extra cost of fuel. Not to mention most rental cars won't let me use my truck as a truck (putting rock in the back damages the bed, and a trailer is right out - both things I do only a couple times a year but I still own a truck for just those few times). IF this is as good as they claim I don't see electric cars as worth it as a first car. They are slightly cheaper for an in-town only commuter car, but the downsides of electric cars (expensive battery replacement, limited range without long recharge times) are something that fans hate to acknowledge. Note that I said first car, once you have decided to have a second car electric is probably better.
    - zaroth 7y ago
      Battery replacement is not really a factor under any kind of "normal" use. One Tesla owner driving for Tesloop was able to burn out a battery after extensively (exclusively) Supercharging from low charge to 95-100% charge after about 350,000 miles. Maintenance cost over that time was calculated as $0.05/mile. [1] With V3 Supercharging, you can drop in with your Model 3 at 15% and be at 80% in 24 minutes. In my road trip experience, that's barely enough time for everyone to use the bathroom and pick out a beverage. [2] [1] - https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-tesla-model-s-surpasses-400000-miles-643737-kilometers https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-tesla-model-... [2] - https://twitter.com/privater/status/1103567772301193216/photo/1 https://twitter.com/privater/status/1103567772301193216/phot...
      - kbutler 7y ago
        Interesting stats on the battery replacement, but if my family/youth groups/etc. routinely took 20+ minutes for a gas station bio break, there'd be words. Especially if we had to do it every 150 miles (80-15%).
        bluGill 7y ago
        I go both ways on that one. On the one hand I want to get there. On the other hand my doctor wants me to get out and take a 10 minute walk every hour anyway.
        zaroth 7y ago
        Also worth mentioning that 65% of the LR Model 3 is over 200 miles. So if you are starting the day with 95% charge, and ending the day plugged in at your destination with 15% charge, that means you can travel about 450 miles with just one ~20 minute stop to charge along the way. How is that not fast enough? The only issue is if you can't plug in at your destination. Maybe in that case you have breakfast near the next Supercharge on your route. Yes, it is something you might have to think about for a minute. The guidance software will map out Supercharging stops for you.
      - 7y ago
qmanjamz 7y ago
Bizarre comment. Being able to quickly refuel is one of the key advantages internal combustion engines have over electrics.
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  If the ev car companies got their shit together, they could have used swappable battery packs. You can wait around for 12h to charge, or you can turn in your cores and pay for 100% capacity batts now. And the swap would be quicker than standing around filling up a tank. But no. Each ev is different and proprietary. The chargers aren't even the same.
  - gmanley 7y ago
    I mean the battery technology for EV companies is their special sauce. If they are all the same that takes away their differentiator. I agree it would be better for customers but it's understandable why that isn't something they want to do.
  - macintux 7y ago
    Much like swappable batteries in a smartphone, there are tradeoffs to such a scheme. And an electrical “pump” is vastly simpler to implement than something that would allow swapping out a car-sized battery. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090933_standardized-electric-car-battery-swapping-wont-happen-heres-why https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090933_standardized-el...
  - rhinoceraptor 7y ago
    Swapping an EV battery is like swapping an ICE transmission. You can do it if you have a car lift and a scissor jack to drop it.
    - mr__y 7y ago
      Sure, but one can argue that a EV could be designed/optimized for faster battery replacement. While it would still need at least a forklift to move the batteries, I believe the time needed for battery swapping could be greatly reduced with a proper design.

by llukas 7y ago

ICE cars cant compete with convenience of: * not needing to refuel * less maintenance needed * not spewing particulates in air etc (if you care about what you breathe)

calvinmorrison 7y ago

* not needing to refuel no, we're taking Soothing30MinuteRelaxingBreaksAt200MileIntervalsAwesomeHappy™ brought to you by Tesla™ instead

zaroth 7y ago
I don't know about you. I've driven the last 5 months / 5,000 miles without using a Supercharger once, except for the first day I took delivery just to try it out. It's there when I need it for the long road trip. But daily life is effectively refueling-free. What percentage of round-trips are under 200 miles? NHTS recorded the distance from ~750,000 car trips in 2009 and found the 95th percentile is 30 miles, and the 99th percentile is 70 miles. Somewhere on the order of 1 in 1,000 trips needs a Supercharger stop along the way. [1] - https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips
- bluGill 7y ago
  I go on vacation a few times a year. Renting a car just for that is more expensive than extra cost of fuel. Not to mention most rental cars won't let me use my truck as a truck (putting rock in the back damages the bed, and a trailer is right out - both things I do only a couple times a year but I still own a truck for just those few times). IF this is as good as they claim I don't see electric cars as worth it as a first car. They are slightly cheaper for an in-town only commuter car, but the downsides of electric cars (expensive battery replacement, limited range without long recharge times) are something that fans hate to acknowledge. Note that I said first car, once you have decided to have a second car electric is probably better.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    Battery replacement is not really a factor under any kind of "normal" use. One Tesla owner driving for Tesloop was able to burn out a battery after extensively (exclusively) Supercharging from low charge to 95-100% charge after about 350,000 miles. Maintenance cost over that time was calculated as $0.05/mile. [1] With V3 Supercharging, you can drop in with your Model 3 at 15% and be at 80% in 24 minutes. In my road trip experience, that's barely enough time for everyone to use the bathroom and pick out a beverage. [2] [1] - https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-tesla-model-s-surpasses-400000-miles-643737-kilometers https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/7/16/tesloops-tesla-model-... [2] - https://twitter.com/privater/status/1103567772301193216/photo/1 https://twitter.com/privater/status/1103567772301193216/phot...
    - kbutler 7y ago
      Interesting stats on the battery replacement, but if my family/youth groups/etc. routinely took 20+ minutes for a gas station bio break, there'd be words. Especially if we had to do it every 150 miles (80-15%).
      - bluGill 7y ago
        I go both ways on that one. On the one hand I want to get there. On the other hand my doctor wants me to get out and take a 10 minute walk every hour anyway.
        zaroth 7y ago
        Also worth mentioning that 65% of the LR Model 3 is over 200 miles. So if you are starting the day with 95% charge, and ending the day plugged in at your destination with 15% charge, that means you can travel about 450 miles with just one ~20 minute stop to charge along the way. How is that not fast enough? The only issue is if you can't plug in at your destination. Maybe in that case you have breakfast near the next Supercharge on your route. Yes, it is something you might have to think about for a minute. The guidance software will map out Supercharging stops for you.
    - 7y ago

qmanjamz 7y ago

Bizarre comment. Being able to quickly refuel is one of the key advantages internal combustion engines have over electrics.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago
If the ev car companies got their shit together, they could have used swappable battery packs. You can wait around for 12h to charge, or you can turn in your cores and pay for 100% capacity batts now. And the swap would be quicker than standing around filling up a tank. But no. Each ev is different and proprietary. The chargers aren't even the same.
- gmanley 7y ago
  I mean the battery technology for EV companies is their special sauce. If they are all the same that takes away their differentiator. I agree it would be better for customers but it's understandable why that isn't something they want to do.
- macintux 7y ago
  Much like swappable batteries in a smartphone, there are tradeoffs to such a scheme. And an electrical “pump” is vastly simpler to implement than something that would allow swapping out a car-sized battery. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090933_standardized-electric-car-battery-swapping-wont-happen-heres-why https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090933_standardized-el...
- rhinoceraptor 7y ago
  Swapping an EV battery is like swapping an ICE transmission. You can do it if you have a car lift and a scissor jack to drop it.
  - mr__y 7y ago
    Sure, but one can argue that a EV could be designed/optimized for faster battery replacement. While it would still need at least a forklift to move the batteries, I believe the time needed for battery swapping could be greatly reduced with a proper design.