14 ms·

“elevate the command-line user experience on Windows.” If I were an engineer in Apple's OSX group I would see this as the horde amassing an army on the border.

“elevate the command-line user experience on Windows.” If I were an engineer in Apple's OSX group I would see this as the horde amassing an army on the border. Bit by bit, Microsoft is going down the checklist of why someone would use a Macbook pro rather than a Windows laptop for their daily driver and erasing the advantage (or at least mitigating it to the best of their ability). This will never convert the die hard OSX fans to use Windows laptops, like the OSX features could never convince die hard Windows users to use Macbook Pros, but the real prize here is the large bulk of users who aren't die hard Apple or Windows fans and just want to get their job done on one laptop reliably. Apple's latest earnings report re-iterates that they aren't investing in the Macbook Pro or OSX in any meaningful way. Microsoft's success with the Surface Pro series against the Macbook Pro has shown that good electrical engineering can be bought and if the software is good enough, it can remove the last objections to the Windows laptops. I see Linux as a big loser here too as the opportunity for a Linux desktop, for the bulk of the users, recedes further into the distance with two capable, and supported, offerings from larger players to choose from. I've got one of everything it seems, and I had a Macbook Pro as my daily driver starting at Google in 2006 through my exit from IBM at 2015. I bought a SurfaceBook when they announced them for the drawing experience and laptop that had more capability than my Macbook Pro. I then tag teamed between them until I got the Surface Pro 4 with the same drawing experience, but lighter than a Macbook Air and with WSL and a third party X server a decent Linux/UNIX like development environment. I still haven't replaced my Macbook from 2015 with the various things that Apple has thrown out there, the keyboard issue, the track bar issue, the lack of drawing, the lack of any compelling reason to upgrade. I still use it for Xcode for the iPad app I am doing in my spare time but use it less and less. The new terminal will make it easier to not use the Macbook. If Microsoft starts bundling an Xserver for the occasional windows app it would make it even easier to stay on their platform. I can't tell if Apple sees this as a threat to their business, or just doesn't care anymore about that part of the business and so they are willing to cede it to Windows as the "portable" development environment supported by an enterprise vendor.

jtr_47 8y ago
I don't see this as a threat to any Unix like operating system. In my 20+ years in IT, Microsoft has had many years to perfect their command line experience, but never did. They have a long way to go in terms of Unix like features that are part of the command line ecosystem of Unix land. When I can do this in windows (unix command line): cat somefile.txt | sort | uniq > output.txt, then it'll become a threat. Otherwise, Microsoft should fork a version of GNU/Linux and port all of their apps and GUI. They need to stop trying, they had their chance but may never achieve equality when it comes to the Windows Vs. Unix/GNU-Linux command line. This is my opinion and observation. Peace
- detaro 8y ago
  You can do that easily through WSL. (Powershell can do the equivalent too, but of course with different syntax)
- zamadatix 8y ago
  "When I can do this in windows (unix command line): cat somefile.txt | sort | uniq > output.txt, then it'll become a threat" I take it you haven't tried WSL in the last couple of years?
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  I would suggest you check out WSL (if you're running Win10, just install your favorite distro from the store). Not only can you do operate your typical one-liners but if the package is basically command line driven you can just apt-get install it and go. There is a remaining wart that I hit from time to time, if I have a git repo that I want to talk to both from the WSL window and from a Git Shell (Cygwin app), the line endings get tweaked. It can be managed but it is still annoying.
- anoonmoose 8y ago
  cat .\somefile.txt | sort | unique | add-content "sortfile.txt" I mean really it's not that hard to learn the actual PS syntax instead of the aliases: get-content .\somefile.txt | sort-object | get-unique | add-content .\sortfile.txt
- com2kid 8y ago
  > cat somefile.txt | sort | uniq > output.txt, in cmd.exe type somefile.txt | sort /unique > output.txt or in powershell type file.txt | sort -unique Powershell is obscenely powerful, it is equal to anything Bash can do plus: 1. It sends objects instead of streams, so instead of relying on fixed width output and string splitting, you can specify which column(s) of output you want from a tool directly 2. It can pull data from all sources of sources, including databases, WMI, COM sources and more. 3. Fully plugged into automation for servers, rich auto-complete, and a native ecosystem that is designed to all work together. 4. It can call into .NET libraries But even cmd.exe can handle outputting text and sorting it!
jdance 8y ago
I find Microsoft also deprioritizing Windows, as mentioned many times here on HN its a mess with settings everywhere and a total mix of different paradigms. Ads? I mean I cant even control when my computer reboots anymore on Windows. I actually use linux as my daily desktop environment for the first time in my life because Windows just feels so split to me. Using ubuntu feels like Windows used to feel, and the native package managers are just amazing compared to something like homebrew. That is my experience now, ymmv and all that
- com2kid 8y ago
  > I mean I cant even control when my computer reboots anymore on Windows. Each of the last few major updates have added more and more control over this. The latest release is allowing even more user control. Windows already tries to track active use times for the user, and is capable of waking a machine up in the middle of the night, install updates, and then go back to sleep. Improvements to session restore makes this almost seamless. At some point MS, as the maker of the largest consumer OS, has a responsibility to patch critical vulnerabilities. Balancing the need to keep users secure with the inconvenience of a reboot, and the feelings of lack of control that come with it, is not an easy task. On the opposite side, I've been frequently annoyed when Windows, unable to install an update, turns my computer on in the middle of the night, fails to install, and keeps the machine on. Lovely way to waste electricity, error messages are silent, and I had to run a command line power management tool to determine why my machine was waking up every night at 1am.
  - majkinetor 8y ago
    W10 has seriously fucked up updates. Nowdays its more like - will I be able to use computer AT ALL after the update then anything else. Not to mention problems to disable it, unlimited restarts etc. Seriously, YOU DUDE, who lead this at MS - just go, get fired, whatever !!!
    - com2kid 8y ago
      Yeah, the recent # of updates with critical failures has resulted in a huge loss of trust. I wouldn't touch an insiders build, I rely too much on my machine being stable. It is rather sad, a decade ago everything coming out of Microsoft was super stable, but of course it came out much more slowly. The entire industry has moved to a "less testing, more releases" mentality. Not so bad for websites, where the damage is sandboxed by the browser, but IMHO it is unfortunate this mentality has pervaded everything. I totally get rapid release cycles, I've lead teams that releases C++ code every 3 weeks! But we had a A+ solid test team backing up every one of our releases, and each of those releases got 2 weeks of testing done to them before they went to beta. Best team I ever worked on automated every single bug that they have ever seen into a regression test. That mentality requires having a test team that is equal in size (and technical capability!) to the development team, and the current trend of "developer tests" tends preclude such thorough testing practices. We live in a world where car entertainment systems can lock-up and reboot themselves and where headphones need firmware updates.
nickjj 8y ago
I've been using WSL for a while now (with Docker running through Docker for Windows but accessible through WSL). My whole dev environment is based on running tmux / Vim in it. I don't want to start any flame wars but I happen to do a lot of pair programming sessions with people (I'm a freelance dev) and a number of people have said they were jealous of my set up and are thinking about a Windows laptop for their next upgrade. Not because my set up is special or super cool, it's just their Mac set up is all sorts of broken and buggy. I can hear legit sadness in their voice. You don't need MS to bundle an Xserver by the way. Just download VcXsrv for free https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/ and be up and running in a few minutes. I use it mainly for flawless zero configuration clipboard sharing between Linux apps running in WSL to work with my Windows clipboard, but graphical apps run ok too (I even tried running i3 through it which was usable but too limiting with multiple monitors). I guess I just wanted to really say that Linux based / Docker development on Windows is very much possible even today on the stable version of Windows 10, and WSL v2 is just going to make it a lot better than it already is. I haven't been this excited over a new OS / OS feature since Windows 7 was first released. Only problem is the June release is for insiders, not stable, and insiders requires sharing A LOT of private info with Microsoft (unacceptable IMO). It might not be until October 2019 or even April 2020 before this hits the stable channel of Windows 10. Doh.
- TimTheTinker 8y ago
  > their Mac set up is all sorts of broken and buggy. I can hear legit sadness in their voice. I'm normally very happy with the dev experience on my 2016 MacBook Pro. I run iTerm2 (multiple split panes in a window), zsh/ohmyzsh, homebrew, and VSCode. The new APFS filesystem is insanely fast, especially when combined with VSCode's ripgrep-based text search. I watch my Windows-based colleagues start a VSCode text search in our repo and it takes 10-15 seconds to complete. Me - it's usually less than 5 seconds and often instant. Also, moving/copying/deleting large directories (i.e. 25k+ files) is unbelievably fast. So macOS is great, in my opinion. But I'm often frustrated with this machine: (a) the keyboard is unreliable - certain keys develop habits of not responding (the `fn` key is currently driving me round the bend), (b) it crashes every time the battery runs low, and (c) my corporate policy installs Sophos which sometimes slows it to an absolute crawl. From many developers' perspective, Windows' greatest downfall is that it's, well, still Windows. There is so much legacy to maintain, and so many ways that it differs from macOS and Linux at low levels. WSL and the new terminal/PTY are making inroads, but if Microsoft would only fork Debian and build their own supported distro, I can guess that's where we'd all be going very soon. What if they forked Wine as well and built a supported Windows compatibility layer on top?
wnevets 8y ago
>If I were an engineer in Apple's OSX group I would see this as the horde amassing an army on the border. Bit by bit, Microsoft is going down the checklist of why someone would use a Macbook pro rather than a Windows laptop for their daily driver and erasing the advantage (or at least mitigating it to the best of their ability). WSL and Hyper V(really docker for windows on top of hyper v) has gone a long way to stop me from switching to linux for development.
pier25 8y ago
Indeed. Apple has been making huge mistakes in their Mac strategy. From the outside it seems they got drunk on the iPhone success. With the exception of the iMac 5K and maybe the Mac Mini, I'd say the complete Mac line of products is now in worse shape than ever. It started decaying around 2013 with the trashcan Mac Pro and the gradual death of the Apple pro apps (Motion, Aperture, Final Cut, Logic, etc). Regardless of the mediocre state of Mac hardware I love macOS. Although I agree that Windows is in great shape now and is only getting better. I hope Apple is changing course and it's only taking so long because it is difficult to steer a huge ship into a new direction.
- _ph_ 8y ago
  Also, there is very little innovation in the OS space. While 10 years ago it fealt as if Apple was seriously pushing OS X, it seems to be more in a maintenance mode now. The only larger innovation was APFS, a welcome addition, but primarily developed for iOS.
  - runxel 8y ago
    Which was also bugged as hell at start (or still is?)
    - lupinglade 8y ago
      Never was? I thought it was seamless as heck for most people? I think Fusion drives weren’t supported at first.
- dplgk 8y ago
  The end of OSX was signaled by the iPad. When the iPad ended up just a large phone and not running a real OS for getting shit done, it was clear where Apple wanted to head.
wmf 8y ago
This is the year of Linux on the Windows desktop.
_ph_ 8y ago
Instead of an X-server, it would be cool if Microsoft implemented a Wayland compositor that is fully integrated in the Windows UI. It would mean perfect hardware accelleration for Linux apps and probably a much better integration into the Windows desktop.
patrec 8y ago
Exactly. Microsofts obvious, deliberate and well executed attempts to strangle Apple by cutting off the developer pool they need to sell their live-style gizmos coupled with Apple management's apparent obliviousness that this is any threat at all (otherwise they would not impose additional unforced deterioration on their own developer system on top of whatever Microsoft is chipping away) makes one kinda wonder what's wrong with shareholder capitalism.
spurgu 8y ago
I still don't see any reason to not switch to Linux from MacOS. I love iTerm and Alfred and especially the unified keyboard shortcuts. I also thoroughly enjoy the MacOS window manager although not as much as I used to (I can envision a replacement). But there's just nothing Windows can offer me that Linux can't.
- dublin 8y ago
  If you're OK with limiting your computer interactions to the 20th century, then yes, there's no reason not to run Linux directly. The most awesome thing about the WSL/Win10/Surface combo, though is that I get all the best features of Windows, including support for touch & pen, and all the best features of a real Linux box (which does make it way easier to keep your dev env like your deploy env.) I will never go back to a "caveman computer" that I can't write on to sketch and take notes in OneNote or similar apps. No Mac can offer that capability at any price.
tomcam 8y ago
The MacBook keyboard alone is causing me to rethink 20 years of Mac preference. Fucking sick and tired of spending $4,400 for a computer with a shitty keyboard and dealing with snotty “Genius Bar” people who act like it’s my fault that the keyboard is a fucking disaster.
- threatofrain 8y ago
  I recommended the MacBook Pro for development and school purposes to family members and friends but am now in serious regret after keyboard issues developed in short time.
- m463 8y ago
  I like the older macbook pro keyboard, just before the keys became completely flat. The keys were a concave curved shape so they were comfortable to your finger pads and tactile so that you could center your finger on they key by touch. Since then, it's been form over function.
  - tomcam 8y ago
    Yep. I’ve still got one. Those keys were quite usable. Sigh.
thatoneuser 8y ago
Aside from a bit of apex, I only use Ubuntu and chrome on my cpu 99% of the time. The fact that I can boot into windows and then press three keys (win u enter) means there's effectively no overhead (if we pretend windows doesn't just upgrade against your will). But I can still play apex. Afaik I can't do that on Linux and thus windows is justified. I don't see this as a loss for Linux. I see it as Microsoft bridging a gap (albeit a gap they deliberately created) that Linux hasn't yet. If I could do it the other way around (Linux running windows) then maybe I would but when I created this setup some years ago I couldn't so... Yeah idk this way Linux at least gets to be a part of my life.
int_19h 8y ago
Third-party, and not free, but if you want an almost single-click X experience with WSL today, this is as close as it gets. Basically just need to do DISPLAY=:0 in /etc/environment, and that's it. https://token2shell.com/x410/ https://token2shell.com/x410/
erikbye 8y ago
> If I were an engineer in Apple's OSX group I would see this as the horde amassing an army on the border. Bit by bit, Microsoft is going down the checklist of why someone would use a Macbook pro rather than a Windows laptop for their daily driver and erasing the advantage (or at least mitigating it to the best of their ability). Does it matter? According to market share numbers osx/macos' is ca. 14%. Developers/others who care about terminal environment must constitute a tiny share.
zghst 8y ago
Modern day computers are not where a large company like Apple should be investing its resources. You forget that the battleground in their business is the smartphone, capitalizing on the gains in smartphones and accessories is what will make the most profit. Additionally Apple is well fomented against the PC market taking over, all over Silicon Valley, Macs (Unix) are a clear preference for getting work done. Apple is so off the charts popular, that their events even take the world's attention. The glitz, the buzz, the beast marketing machine can't be defeated.
h1d 8y ago
Apple is only making sure their profit from mobile section isn't falling by just playing around with sales. All they do for desktop and laptop is just tell the public number of git branches they made as number of new features added. I could still use Snow Leopard if they kept patching it for recent hardware. Loss of a visionary is a way for a slow death. When are they going to wake up and be innovative again?

jtr_47 8y ago

I don't see this as a threat to any Unix like operating system. In my 20+ years in IT, Microsoft has had many years to perfect their command line experience, but never did. They have a long way to go in terms of Unix like features that are part of the command line ecosystem of Unix land. When I can do this in windows (unix command line): cat somefile.txt | sort | uniq > output.txt, then it'll become a threat. Otherwise, Microsoft should fork a version of GNU/Linux and port all of their apps and GUI. They need to stop trying, they had their chance but may never achieve equality when it comes to the Windows Vs. Unix/GNU-Linux command line. This is my opinion and observation. Peace

detaro 8y ago
You can do that easily through WSL. (Powershell can do the equivalent too, but of course with different syntax)
zamadatix 8y ago
"When I can do this in windows (unix command line): cat somefile.txt | sort | uniq > output.txt, then it'll become a threat" I take it you haven't tried WSL in the last couple of years?
ChuckMcM 8y ago
I would suggest you check out WSL (if you're running Win10, just install your favorite distro from the store). Not only can you do operate your typical one-liners but if the package is basically command line driven you can just apt-get install it and go. There is a remaining wart that I hit from time to time, if I have a git repo that I want to talk to both from the WSL window and from a Git Shell (Cygwin app), the line endings get tweaked. It can be managed but it is still annoying.
anoonmoose 8y ago
cat .\somefile.txt | sort | unique | add-content "sortfile.txt" I mean really it's not that hard to learn the actual PS syntax instead of the aliases: get-content .\somefile.txt | sort-object | get-unique | add-content .\sortfile.txt
com2kid 8y ago
> cat somefile.txt | sort | uniq > output.txt, in cmd.exe type somefile.txt | sort /unique > output.txt or in powershell type file.txt | sort -unique Powershell is obscenely powerful, it is equal to anything Bash can do plus: 1. It sends objects instead of streams, so instead of relying on fixed width output and string splitting, you can specify which column(s) of output you want from a tool directly 2. It can pull data from all sources of sources, including databases, WMI, COM sources and more. 3. Fully plugged into automation for servers, rich auto-complete, and a native ecosystem that is designed to all work together. 4. It can call into .NET libraries But even cmd.exe can handle outputting text and sorting it!

jdance 8y ago

I find Microsoft also deprioritizing Windows, as mentioned many times here on HN its a mess with settings everywhere and a total mix of different paradigms. Ads? I mean I cant even control when my computer reboots anymore on Windows. I actually use linux as my daily desktop environment for the first time in my life because Windows just feels so split to me. Using ubuntu feels like Windows used to feel, and the native package managers are just amazing compared to something like homebrew. That is my experience now, ymmv and all that

com2kid 8y ago
> I mean I cant even control when my computer reboots anymore on Windows. Each of the last few major updates have added more and more control over this. The latest release is allowing even more user control. Windows already tries to track active use times for the user, and is capable of waking a machine up in the middle of the night, install updates, and then go back to sleep. Improvements to session restore makes this almost seamless. At some point MS, as the maker of the largest consumer OS, has a responsibility to patch critical vulnerabilities. Balancing the need to keep users secure with the inconvenience of a reboot, and the feelings of lack of control that come with it, is not an easy task. On the opposite side, I've been frequently annoyed when Windows, unable to install an update, turns my computer on in the middle of the night, fails to install, and keeps the machine on. Lovely way to waste electricity, error messages are silent, and I had to run a command line power management tool to determine why my machine was waking up every night at 1am.
- majkinetor 8y ago
  W10 has seriously fucked up updates. Nowdays its more like - will I be able to use computer AT ALL after the update then anything else. Not to mention problems to disable it, unlimited restarts etc. Seriously, YOU DUDE, who lead this at MS - just go, get fired, whatever !!!
  - com2kid 8y ago
    Yeah, the recent # of updates with critical failures has resulted in a huge loss of trust. I wouldn't touch an insiders build, I rely too much on my machine being stable. It is rather sad, a decade ago everything coming out of Microsoft was super stable, but of course it came out much more slowly. The entire industry has moved to a "less testing, more releases" mentality. Not so bad for websites, where the damage is sandboxed by the browser, but IMHO it is unfortunate this mentality has pervaded everything. I totally get rapid release cycles, I've lead teams that releases C++ code every 3 weeks! But we had a A+ solid test team backing up every one of our releases, and each of those releases got 2 weeks of testing done to them before they went to beta. Best team I ever worked on automated every single bug that they have ever seen into a regression test. That mentality requires having a test team that is equal in size (and technical capability!) to the development team, and the current trend of "developer tests" tends preclude such thorough testing practices. We live in a world where car entertainment systems can lock-up and reboot themselves and where headphones need firmware updates.

nickjj 8y ago

I've been using WSL for a while now (with Docker running through Docker for Windows but accessible through WSL). My whole dev environment is based on running tmux / Vim in it. I don't want to start any flame wars but I happen to do a lot of pair programming sessions with people (I'm a freelance dev) and a number of people have said they were jealous of my set up and are thinking about a Windows laptop for their next upgrade. Not because my set up is special or super cool, it's just their Mac set up is all sorts of broken and buggy. I can hear legit sadness in their voice. You don't need MS to bundle an Xserver by the way. Just download VcXsrv for free https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/ and be up and running in a few minutes. I use it mainly for flawless zero configuration clipboard sharing between Linux apps running in WSL to work with my Windows clipboard, but graphical apps run ok too (I even tried running i3 through it which was usable but too limiting with multiple monitors). I guess I just wanted to really say that Linux based / Docker development on Windows is very much possible even today on the stable version of Windows 10, and WSL v2 is just going to make it a lot better than it already is. I haven't been this excited over a new OS / OS feature since Windows 7 was first released. Only problem is the June release is for insiders, not stable, and insiders requires sharing A LOT of private info with Microsoft (unacceptable IMO). It might not be until October 2019 or even April 2020 before this hits the stable channel of Windows 10. Doh.

TimTheTinker 8y ago
> their Mac set up is all sorts of broken and buggy. I can hear legit sadness in their voice. I'm normally very happy with the dev experience on my 2016 MacBook Pro. I run iTerm2 (multiple split panes in a window), zsh/ohmyzsh, homebrew, and VSCode. The new APFS filesystem is insanely fast, especially when combined with VSCode's ripgrep-based text search. I watch my Windows-based colleagues start a VSCode text search in our repo and it takes 10-15 seconds to complete. Me - it's usually less than 5 seconds and often instant. Also, moving/copying/deleting large directories (i.e. 25k+ files) is unbelievably fast. So macOS is great, in my opinion. But I'm often frustrated with this machine: (a) the keyboard is unreliable - certain keys develop habits of not responding (the `fn` key is currently driving me round the bend), (b) it crashes every time the battery runs low, and (c) my corporate policy installs Sophos which sometimes slows it to an absolute crawl. From many developers' perspective, Windows' greatest downfall is that it's, well, still Windows. There is so much legacy to maintain, and so many ways that it differs from macOS and Linux at low levels. WSL and the new terminal/PTY are making inroads, but if Microsoft would only fork Debian and build their own supported distro, I can guess that's where we'd all be going very soon. What if they forked Wine as well and built a supported Windows compatibility layer on top?

wnevets 8y ago

>If I were an engineer in Apple's OSX group I would see this as the horde amassing an army on the border. Bit by bit, Microsoft is going down the checklist of why someone would use a Macbook pro rather than a Windows laptop for their daily driver and erasing the advantage (or at least mitigating it to the best of their ability). WSL and Hyper V(really docker for windows on top of hyper v) has gone a long way to stop me from switching to linux for development.

pier25 8y ago

Indeed. Apple has been making huge mistakes in their Mac strategy. From the outside it seems they got drunk on the iPhone success. With the exception of the iMac 5K and maybe the Mac Mini, I'd say the complete Mac line of products is now in worse shape than ever. It started decaying around 2013 with the trashcan Mac Pro and the gradual death of the Apple pro apps (Motion, Aperture, Final Cut, Logic, etc). Regardless of the mediocre state of Mac hardware I love macOS. Although I agree that Windows is in great shape now and is only getting better. I hope Apple is changing course and it's only taking so long because it is difficult to steer a huge ship into a new direction.

_ph_ 8y ago
Also, there is very little innovation in the OS space. While 10 years ago it fealt as if Apple was seriously pushing OS X, it seems to be more in a maintenance mode now. The only larger innovation was APFS, a welcome addition, but primarily developed for iOS.
- runxel 8y ago
  Which was also bugged as hell at start (or still is?)
  - lupinglade 8y ago
    Never was? I thought it was seamless as heck for most people? I think Fusion drives weren’t supported at first.
dplgk 8y ago
The end of OSX was signaled by the iPad. When the iPad ended up just a large phone and not running a real OS for getting shit done, it was clear where Apple wanted to head.

wmf 8y ago

This is the year of Linux on the Windows desktop.

_ph_ 8y ago

Instead of an X-server, it would be cool if Microsoft implemented a Wayland compositor that is fully integrated in the Windows UI. It would mean perfect hardware accelleration for Linux apps and probably a much better integration into the Windows desktop.

patrec 8y ago

Exactly. Microsofts obvious, deliberate and well executed attempts to strangle Apple by cutting off the developer pool they need to sell their live-style gizmos coupled with Apple management's apparent obliviousness that this is any threat at all (otherwise they would not impose additional unforced deterioration on their own developer system on top of whatever Microsoft is chipping away) makes one kinda wonder what's wrong with shareholder capitalism.

spurgu 8y ago

I still don't see any reason to not switch to Linux from MacOS. I love iTerm and Alfred and especially the unified keyboard shortcuts. I also thoroughly enjoy the MacOS window manager although not as much as I used to (I can envision a replacement). But there's just nothing Windows can offer me that Linux can't.

dublin 8y ago
If you're OK with limiting your computer interactions to the 20th century, then yes, there's no reason not to run Linux directly. The most awesome thing about the WSL/Win10/Surface combo, though is that I get all the best features of Windows, including support for touch & pen, and all the best features of a real Linux box (which does make it way easier to keep your dev env like your deploy env.) I will never go back to a "caveman computer" that I can't write on to sketch and take notes in OneNote or similar apps. No Mac can offer that capability at any price.

tomcam 8y ago

The MacBook keyboard alone is causing me to rethink 20 years of Mac preference. Fucking sick and tired of spending $4,400 for a computer with a shitty keyboard and dealing with snotty “Genius Bar” people who act like it’s my fault that the keyboard is a fucking disaster.

threatofrain 8y ago
I recommended the MacBook Pro for development and school purposes to family members and friends but am now in serious regret after keyboard issues developed in short time.
m463 8y ago
I like the older macbook pro keyboard, just before the keys became completely flat. The keys were a concave curved shape so they were comfortable to your finger pads and tactile so that you could center your finger on they key by touch. Since then, it's been form over function.
- tomcam 8y ago
  Yep. I’ve still got one. Those keys were quite usable. Sigh.

thatoneuser 8y ago

Aside from a bit of apex, I only use Ubuntu and chrome on my cpu 99% of the time. The fact that I can boot into windows and then press three keys (win u enter) means there's effectively no overhead (if we pretend windows doesn't just upgrade against your will). But I can still play apex. Afaik I can't do that on Linux and thus windows is justified. I don't see this as a loss for Linux. I see it as Microsoft bridging a gap (albeit a gap they deliberately created) that Linux hasn't yet. If I could do it the other way around (Linux running windows) then maybe I would but when I created this setup some years ago I couldn't so... Yeah idk this way Linux at least gets to be a part of my life.

int_19h 8y ago

Third-party, and not free, but if you want an almost single-click X experience with WSL today, this is as close as it gets. Basically just need to do DISPLAY=:0 in /etc/environment, and that's it. https://token2shell.com/x410/ https://token2shell.com/x410/

erikbye 8y ago

> If I were an engineer in Apple's OSX group I would see this as the horde amassing an army on the border. Bit by bit, Microsoft is going down the checklist of why someone would use a Macbook pro rather than a Windows laptop for their daily driver and erasing the advantage (or at least mitigating it to the best of their ability). Does it matter? According to market share numbers osx/macos' is ca. 14%. Developers/others who care about terminal environment must constitute a tiny share.

zghst 8y ago

Modern day computers are not where a large company like Apple should be investing its resources. You forget that the battleground in their business is the smartphone, capitalizing on the gains in smartphones and accessories is what will make the most profit. Additionally Apple is well fomented against the PC market taking over, all over Silicon Valley, Macs (Unix) are a clear preference for getting work done. Apple is so off the charts popular, that their events even take the world's attention. The glitz, the buzz, the beast marketing machine can't be defeated.

h1d 8y ago

Apple is only making sure their profit from mobile section isn't falling by just playing around with sales. All they do for desktop and laptop is just tell the public number of git branches they made as number of new features added. I could still use Snow Leopard if they kept patching it for recent hardware. Loss of a visionary is a way for a slow death. When are they going to wake up and be innovative again?