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From this biography of John D. Rockerfeller: > In 1870, he established Standard Oil, which by the early 1880s controlled some 90 percent of U.S. refineries and

by jawns 8y ago

From this biography of John D. Rockerfeller: > In 1870, he established Standard Oil, which by the early 1880s controlled some 90 percent of U.S. refineries and pipelines. Critics accused Rockefeller of engaging in unethical practices, such as predatory pricing and colluding with railroads to eliminate his competitors, in order to gain a monopoly in the industry. So what? Those competitors have become redundant so they are going extinct? What's the problem with progress? Even if you give Amazon every benefit of the doubt regarding the ethicalness of its business practices, the fact remains that monopolies, and near-monopolies, are dangerous. We know what happens. We have hundreds of years of history to look back on to see what happens.

bmmayer1 8y ago
In what way is Amazon a monopoly or near-monopoly?
- johnwheeler 8y ago
  They’re nearly 50% of US e-commerce and growing. Retail spending online is growing double-digits year over year. It’s not too hard to see the writing on the wall. Whether or not this is good or bad is a separate argument, but there’s no doubt there’s an issue with its competitive dynamics.
  - tracer4201 8y ago
    How does that make them a monopoly? As a matter of fact, their platform is open to third party sellers now (which IMO has hurt their quality of service). Is 50% the magic number that deems an entity to be a monopoly? What is, and who decides? WalMart is still leaps ahead of Amazon in revenue. It’s disingenuous and you point out a percentage metric, which is very misleading, but don’t compare hard numbers such as revenue.
    - johnwheeler 8y ago
      Well, you just have to use common sense. It’s not like they’re 50% of the shoe button business; they’re 50% of online retail. You’re being disingenuous because you write as if that number is meaningless.
      - tracer4201 8y ago
        No, I’m not being disingenuous. As an investor, I care less about what percentage of online sales Amazon has. It could be 10% or 90%, but I care more about the total size of the retail space and Amazons specific dollar amount. If you heard their last earnings call, it’s clear their online growth is slowing down. Amazon understands this and they know a long term bet on it isn’t wise - hence, they’re shifting to a more physical presence, but WalMart trounces them. WalMart has the retail space strategically located across the country, and WalMart is offering competitive shipping, without requiring annual memberships. They’re holding their own in the online space. If anything, your 50% metric is an incomplete picture and a gross representation. I’m still betting on Amazon going forward (I invested ~$2MM when they were below $300 a share, which has grown miraculously), but if their retail business was where all of Amazons eggs were put, I would have offloaded my investment a while ago.
  - mimixco 8y ago
    But e-commerce is still a minority of retail. I was surprised to learn that gas stations are the biggest retail player of all, followed by grocery stores.
  - delfinom 8y ago
    Walmart is 4x the size of Amazon in retail revenue with plenty of growth.
rapsey 8y ago
It is stupid to criticize or blame amazon for wiping the floor with their competition. The rules of the game are set by lawmakers. Amazons job is to do the best they can in their business.
- burkaman 8y ago
  No it isn't, that attitude is terrible for society. There is no game, and "Amazon" doesn't have a job, the people who work there do. Running a business with the sole purpose of getting bigger and making more money is as immoral as it is common.
  - mimixco 8y ago
    What makes it immoral? The idea that profit is immoral is a religious viewpoint, and one not shared by most people.
  - rapsey 8y ago
    You make a lot of statements unbacked by explanations. Capitalism has produced the most peaceful and prosperous societies in the world. What exactly is better then?
mimixco 8y ago
Amazon isn't a monopoly. Everything available there is available somewhere else. Amazon is just doing it better. They're more efficient, less expensive, and more convenient. It's a good thing. Now, they need to start paying people better and stop the worker abuses. FWIW, the oil companies broken up from the Standard Oil trust re-merged together anyway, as did AT&T after it was broken up.
- judge2020 8y ago
  > they need to start paying people better https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18120221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18120221

by jawns 8y ago

bmmayer1 8y ago

In what way is Amazon a monopoly or near-monopoly?

johnwheeler 8y ago
They’re nearly 50% of US e-commerce and growing. Retail spending online is growing double-digits year over year. It’s not too hard to see the writing on the wall. Whether or not this is good or bad is a separate argument, but there’s no doubt there’s an issue with its competitive dynamics.
- tracer4201 8y ago
  How does that make them a monopoly? As a matter of fact, their platform is open to third party sellers now (which IMO has hurt their quality of service). Is 50% the magic number that deems an entity to be a monopoly? What is, and who decides? WalMart is still leaps ahead of Amazon in revenue. It’s disingenuous and you point out a percentage metric, which is very misleading, but don’t compare hard numbers such as revenue.
  - johnwheeler 8y ago
    Well, you just have to use common sense. It’s not like they’re 50% of the shoe button business; they’re 50% of online retail. You’re being disingenuous because you write as if that number is meaningless.
    - tracer4201 8y ago
      No, I’m not being disingenuous. As an investor, I care less about what percentage of online sales Amazon has. It could be 10% or 90%, but I care more about the total size of the retail space and Amazons specific dollar amount. If you heard their last earnings call, it’s clear their online growth is slowing down. Amazon understands this and they know a long term bet on it isn’t wise - hence, they’re shifting to a more physical presence, but WalMart trounces them. WalMart has the retail space strategically located across the country, and WalMart is offering competitive shipping, without requiring annual memberships. They’re holding their own in the online space. If anything, your 50% metric is an incomplete picture and a gross representation. I’m still betting on Amazon going forward (I invested ~$2MM when they were below $300 a share, which has grown miraculously), but if their retail business was where all of Amazons eggs were put, I would have offloaded my investment a while ago.
- mimixco 8y ago
  But e-commerce is still a minority of retail. I was surprised to learn that gas stations are the biggest retail player of all, followed by grocery stores.
- delfinom 8y ago
  Walmart is 4x the size of Amazon in retail revenue with plenty of growth.

rapsey 8y ago

It is stupid to criticize or blame amazon for wiping the floor with their competition. The rules of the game are set by lawmakers. Amazons job is to do the best they can in their business.

burkaman 8y ago
No it isn't, that attitude is terrible for society. There is no game, and "Amazon" doesn't have a job, the people who work there do. Running a business with the sole purpose of getting bigger and making more money is as immoral as it is common.
- mimixco 8y ago
  What makes it immoral? The idea that profit is immoral is a religious viewpoint, and one not shared by most people.
- rapsey 8y ago
  You make a lot of statements unbacked by explanations. Capitalism has produced the most peaceful and prosperous societies in the world. What exactly is better then?

mimixco 8y ago

Amazon isn't a monopoly. Everything available there is available somewhere else. Amazon is just doing it better. They're more efficient, less expensive, and more convenient. It's a good thing. Now, they need to start paying people better and stop the worker abuses. FWIW, the oil companies broken up from the Standard Oil trust re-merged together anyway, as did AT&T after it was broken up.

judge2020 8y ago
> they need to start paying people better https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18120221 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18120221