4 ms·

From what I've seen of Scheme they dont have this problem. Everyone implemented the feature they want or forks an implementation. And no one argues about syntax

by wbl 8y ago

From what I've seen of Scheme they dont have this problem. Everyone implemented the feature they want or forks an implementation. And no one argues about syntax.

jerf 8y ago
"And no one argues about syntax." No one argues about the syntax, because everybody "wins" and gets their own syntax as a result, which is often held up as a key part of the explanation for why the Lisp family languages are wonderful and fun and mind-expanding and just awesome in every way... yet rarely escape from "niche" status and are yet to even threaten to break into the really top-tier languages. Because languages like Rust and Go, and Python and Java and honestly almost every other non-Lisp family language, want more cohesion in their codebases, they need a different solution to the problem.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  Fragmentation cannot really be an issue for adoption, as it happens after adoption.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    So the Linux desktop will only become fragmented after the mythical "year of Linux on the desktop"?
    - zzzcpan 8y ago
      I'd say fragmentation hurts retention, which only has secondary effect on adoption.
      - frenchy 8y ago
        Yeah, but any language more popular than brainfuck has some level of adoption. Your language doesn't have to be super popular to start having adoptions issues.
      - jerf 8y ago
        "I'd say fragmentation hurts retention, which only has secondary effect on adoption." I have no idea how you come to that conclusion. Any conceivable model for adoption I can imagine is a differential equation which contains "current adoption" as a term going into the first derivative. If people are leaving a language faster than people are coming in (and I speak in general, not claiming this about any particular language), retention is going to have major effects on adoption and the lack thereof.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- bobbylarrybobby 8y ago
  http://winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html http://winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html
- kazinator 8y ago
  That's just a meme from that Lisp Curse article and wherevernot; it's not spread by people who have actually worked in a Lisp code base.
wtetzner 8y ago
Wasn't there a bunch of disagreement about R6RS?
neilv 8y ago
There is some hearty discussion in the Scheme community about syntax, but less than in some other communities. Part of the reason might be that most new syntax looks like this, with no changes to the language grammar: (my-new-syntax-name arbitrary other stuff goes here) Related to this, some things that would have to be primitives in many other languages can be implemented nicely by anyone as ordinary libraries in Scheme.

by wbl 8y ago

From what I've seen of Scheme they dont have this problem. Everyone implemented the feature they want or forks an implementation. And no one argues about syntax.

jerf 8y ago

"And no one argues about syntax." No one argues about the syntax, because everybody "wins" and gets their own syntax as a result, which is often held up as a key part of the explanation for why the Lisp family languages are wonderful and fun and mind-expanding and just awesome in every way... yet rarely escape from "niche" status and are yet to even threaten to break into the really top-tier languages. Because languages like Rust and Go, and Python and Java and honestly almost every other non-Lisp family language, want more cohesion in their codebases, they need a different solution to the problem.

zzzcpan 8y ago
Fragmentation cannot really be an issue for adoption, as it happens after adoption.
- majewsky 8y ago
  So the Linux desktop will only become fragmented after the mythical "year of Linux on the desktop"?
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    I'd say fragmentation hurts retention, which only has secondary effect on adoption.
    - frenchy 8y ago
      Yeah, but any language more popular than brainfuck has some level of adoption. Your language doesn't have to be super popular to start having adoptions issues.
    - jerf 8y ago
      "I'd say fragmentation hurts retention, which only has secondary effect on adoption." I have no idea how you come to that conclusion. Any conceivable model for adoption I can imagine is a differential equation which contains "current adoption" as a term going into the first derivative. If people are leaving a language faster than people are coming in (and I speak in general, not claiming this about any particular language), retention is going to have major effects on adoption and the lack thereof.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
bobbylarrybobby 8y ago
http://winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html http://winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html
kazinator 8y ago
That's just a meme from that Lisp Curse article and wherevernot; it's not spread by people who have actually worked in a Lisp code base.

wtetzner 8y ago

Wasn't there a bunch of disagreement about R6RS?

neilv 8y ago

There is some hearty discussion in the Scheme community about syntax, but less than in some other communities. Part of the reason might be that most new syntax looks like this, with no changes to the language grammar: (my-new-syntax-name arbitrary other stuff goes here) Related to this, some things that would have to be primitives in many other languages can be implemented nicely by anyone as ordinary libraries in Scheme.