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"Because most of the data in the US indicates no correlation between enforcement and addiction rates." This is simply not true. This notion that legalizing so

"Because most of the data in the US indicates no correlation between enforcement and addiction rates." This is simply not true. This notion that legalizing something will incur less addiction is simply not reasonable. Opiates are available by prescription and that is huge source of addiction, even within that controlled environment. Doctors in Canada now give out the absolute minimum - I had major dental surgery and got two pills. Just two! Because it's that addictive. US doctors are changing as well. Consider what full opiate legality would mean: it would be infused into tobacco, cola, alcohol, food etc. and available within an arms reach with billions in advertising behind it. Even though a good number of people wouldn't use it, and another chunk can actually 'handle their drugs' - for a significantly high group of others it would be destructive. If only 5% of our population fell prey to this, and instead of having jobs they were stealing, in hospitals, rehab etc. - it would be a huge crisis. I'm always surprised by how people put this issue mostly in the context of the here and now, and don't consider how so many things would transform. Vaping (i.e. repackaging of nicotine) is blowing up massively in the US, Juul is hiring 2000 people just in SF and their business is exploding! This is not because vaping 'tastes good'. It's because it's deeply addictive, and as an ex-vaper (short period) I suggest there's a whole host of problems we haven't seen yet. No good will come of a generation re-addicted to nicotine. So yes, Portugual et. al. took a different path on hard drugs, but this is nothing remotely near legalization. It's still a health problem, they just deal with it differently. Mushrooms are a different thing, they are not remotely addictive, so they're in a different class. That said, they are actually dangerous. Also the inherent demand is just not nearly there. Some degree of de-criminalization ought to be considered surely.

TallGuyShort 7y ago
I do agree with most of your points - I do wish policy & discussion was at least based on harm and addictiveness, etc. and not fear mongering because "schedule 1" == "the devil". I think alcohol, tobacco and prescription opiates cause far more harm than marijuana ever would, for instance. There is, however, a very strong corpus of data that drug enforcement as implemented in America really does achieve nothing. I posted one link further up the thread, you'll find similarly strong trends between DEA budgets, frequency of all sorts of LE activities, and addiction rates, amounts found on arrestees, etc.
blincoln 7y ago
> instead of having jobs they were stealing If opiates were legal, it seems unlikely to me that any significant number of people would need to steal to support their habit. I lived in Canada for a few years, and had a friend up there who worked in an ER there. All of the drugs they used had price tags on them as an incentive to remind the staff how much government money they were spending when they used them. He told me the giant syringes full of morphine that they used for severe burn injuries were a tagged as a few dollars. Here in Washington state, legalizing marijuana has driven down the price so much that it's actually hard for growers to turn a profit. FWIW, I don't use either of them.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  Lowering the price will simply increase consumption (supply and demand). I don't see how making addictive poison cheaper is in any way positive for anyone least of all the users - most of whom will be addicts, not casual users. FYI - people steal for dope not because it's insanely expensive, they steal because their lives are ruined and that's their recourse. It's really nary impossible to make the case that we should be make super cheap opiates widely available. There is a reason (actually many) that it's essentially illegal everywhere on the planet wherein there is any form of governance. The odd thing about the 'drugs debate' is how many very intelligent people have trouble with seeing the societal implications. To me the very debate itself is a fascinating social phenom, and I wonder what drives people to make odd arguments.

TallGuyShort 7y ago

I do agree with most of your points - I do wish policy & discussion was at least based on harm and addictiveness, etc. and not fear mongering because "schedule 1" == "the devil". I think alcohol, tobacco and prescription opiates cause far more harm than marijuana ever would, for instance. There is, however, a very strong corpus of data that drug enforcement as implemented in America really does achieve nothing. I posted one link further up the thread, you'll find similarly strong trends between DEA budgets, frequency of all sorts of LE activities, and addiction rates, amounts found on arrestees, etc.

blincoln 7y ago

> instead of having jobs they were stealing If opiates were legal, it seems unlikely to me that any significant number of people would need to steal to support their habit. I lived in Canada for a few years, and had a friend up there who worked in an ER there. All of the drugs they used had price tags on them as an incentive to remind the staff how much government money they were spending when they used them. He told me the giant syringes full of morphine that they used for severe burn injuries were a tagged as a few dollars. Here in Washington state, legalizing marijuana has driven down the price so much that it's actually hard for growers to turn a profit. FWIW, I don't use either of them.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
Lowering the price will simply increase consumption (supply and demand). I don't see how making addictive poison cheaper is in any way positive for anyone least of all the users - most of whom will be addicts, not casual users. FYI - people steal for dope not because it's insanely expensive, they steal because their lives are ruined and that's their recourse. It's really nary impossible to make the case that we should be make super cheap opiates widely available. There is a reason (actually many) that it's essentially illegal everywhere on the planet wherein there is any form of governance. The odd thing about the 'drugs debate' is how many very intelligent people have trouble with seeing the societal implications. To me the very debate itself is a fascinating social phenom, and I wonder what drives people to make odd arguments.