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Individual actions in this context are like trying to put down the fire with a single glass of water. It will certainly not hurt if you do it, but for it to hav

Individual actions in this context are like trying to put down the fire with a single glass of water. It will certainly not hurt if you do it, but for it to have any significant effect you need everybody else to do the same at the same time. And the best way to have everyone do it is to push politicians to commit to it and create public policies to enforce it. The huge problem with individual actions is that they make people feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they did their part, while actually the effects of it are minimal.

perfunctory 7y ago
> The huge problem with individual actions is that they make people feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they did their part, while actually the effects of it are minimal. How is this a huge problem? What's wrong about feeling good about yourself when you are doing something good? It's actually great. You help the climate AND you feel good. Win-win. Just imagine what a hell the life would be if doing something good felt bad.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ivanhoe 7y ago
  Problem is not that people feel good, problem is that they're concentrating on insignificant actions and it gives them a false sense of doing enough - so they stop at that, guilty-free, but without doing anything actually impactful. It's actually a very common form of self delusion, we all do that by drinking that diet-soda after we just ate a full box of ice-cream while on a diet, or in social media by liking and retweeting calls for help or action, while never really following through to actually help or take part in that action. It dilutes the outcome, lots of momentum gets wasted that way.
  - perfunctory 7y ago
    I know what you are saying but I wouldn't call abandoning flying and meat insignificant actions. Liking and retweeting might be. Actions I propose are also very visible. It wasn't the main reason, but meeting vegetarians at work and in the friend circle certainly served as a helpful encouragement to reduce my own meat consumption.
kingkawn 7y ago
Everything matters.
TaylorAlexander 7y ago
I don’t think this is universally a reasonable outlook. For example, I’ve become vegan in the last year. It is extremely politically infeasible to legally force a vegan diet on everyone, so individual action is the only way to participate in veganism. However now that I am vegan I can legitimately tell you this: being vegan is super awesome. I no longer contribute to the insane environmental destruction of the beef industry nor do I contribute (with my diet) to animal suffering on the same scale as before. Individuals deciding to be vegan is a kind of voluntary collective action that should not be forced by the state. I would imagine it is not the only kind. Realistically an entire change in our culture to reduce consumption is needed. Some of that can come from above (government decision) and some of that must come from below (genuine cultural support).
- ethagnawl 7y ago
  To make an orthogonal point to yours: I gave up meat a few years ago and this has lead to (more than) a few friends either giving up meat themselves or reducing their meat consumption now that they've seen (because of _my individual action_) that it's a viable option.

perfunctory 7y ago

> The huge problem with individual actions is that they make people feel good about themselves, makes them feel like they did their part, while actually the effects of it are minimal. How is this a huge problem? What's wrong about feeling good about yourself when you are doing something good? It's actually great. You help the climate AND you feel good. Win-win. Just imagine what a hell the life would be if doing something good felt bad.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ivanhoe 7y ago
Problem is not that people feel good, problem is that they're concentrating on insignificant actions and it gives them a false sense of doing enough - so they stop at that, guilty-free, but without doing anything actually impactful. It's actually a very common form of self delusion, we all do that by drinking that diet-soda after we just ate a full box of ice-cream while on a diet, or in social media by liking and retweeting calls for help or action, while never really following through to actually help or take part in that action. It dilutes the outcome, lots of momentum gets wasted that way.
- perfunctory 7y ago
  I know what you are saying but I wouldn't call abandoning flying and meat insignificant actions. Liking and retweeting might be. Actions I propose are also very visible. It wasn't the main reason, but meeting vegetarians at work and in the friend circle certainly served as a helpful encouragement to reduce my own meat consumption.

kingkawn 7y ago

Everything matters.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago

I don’t think this is universally a reasonable outlook. For example, I’ve become vegan in the last year. It is extremely politically infeasible to legally force a vegan diet on everyone, so individual action is the only way to participate in veganism. However now that I am vegan I can legitimately tell you this: being vegan is super awesome. I no longer contribute to the insane environmental destruction of the beef industry nor do I contribute (with my diet) to animal suffering on the same scale as before. Individuals deciding to be vegan is a kind of voluntary collective action that should not be forced by the state. I would imagine it is not the only kind. Realistically an entire change in our culture to reduce consumption is needed. Some of that can come from above (government decision) and some of that must come from below (genuine cultural support).

ethagnawl 7y ago
To make an orthogonal point to yours: I gave up meat a few years ago and this has lead to (more than) a few friends either giving up meat themselves or reducing their meat consumption now that they've seen (because of _my individual action_) that it's a viable option.