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So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowi

So? Isn't this just evolution in action? Isn't this what's supposed to happen? We kill off 1M species, we eat the planet, humans eventually go through a winnowing process, from lack of resources, or nuclear war, or AI, and in a couple hundred million years, everything adapts to fill out the prevailing ecology again. What makes us think we're so special? I'm only being partly sarcastic here. With 500 MILLION years of change and adaptation -- to a climate we know to have been WILDLY different in times past -- through <checks watch for latest count> SEVEN mass extinction events -- why is RIGHT NOW the PERFECT moment in planetary evolution which must be preserved exactly, no matter the cost? To me, it's all Horizon Zero Dawn territory.

tehlike 7y ago
Because we like to believe we are intelligent animals that can prevent its own extinction.
- TheRealDunkirk 7y ago
  It's becoming increasingly clear that greed is beating intelligence. And, like, badly. Looks to me like nature will (eventually) have to balance the scales for us.
wongarsu 7y ago
Its perfectly normal for hunter and prey populations to oscillate. The hunters hunt a lot of prey, multiply, overhunt, prey population goes down, many hunters starve, prey population recovers and the cycle repeats. You see that a lot in animals, and humans are not immune to this. But as a species we might have overdone it, and nobody wants to see the crash as the ecosystems we rely on collapse. It won't be the end of the planet (whatever that even means), it won't be the end of life on earth's surface, it likely won't even be the end of humanity. But it might mean a lot of human death and suffering that could be avoided.
Tepix 7y ago
The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time. We know that a massive loss of species also threatens ourselves. We know that a rapid climate change also threatens mankind. Sure, you could argue that we're not worth saving. The human will to survive and its adaptability means we might be able to hang on, miserably vegetating on a poisoned world.
- kmlx 7y ago
  > The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time. What about the Chicxulub asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs? That would have been much faster.
x3haloed 7y ago
Careful - the belief in evolution as a sacred and holy process is what leads to racism. I know you said you're half sarcastic, but that means you half-believe it. Evolution is simply a process by which generations of organisms become more fit to their environment over time. Treating it as something more - some kind of natural state of the universe or hand of destiny is what leads to the idea that it's necessary to facilitate it or perhaps remain uninvolved to allow it to come to a natural completion. That's a real compassion killer, and it pushes people to belive that their hate is righteous and that they maybe even should hate others in order to help facilitate the divine evolutionary process. To re-iterate: evolution is an observed phenomenon of the universe. That is fact. The ideas that it should be prioritized or respected or enhanced or left to do its work are all subjective beliefs, and that's a choice. Humans are a lot less important than we like to think. Less than specks of dust in this vast universe. But pretending that we have no impact or control of any kind in the process of evolution on Earth is just an attempt wash our hands of responsibility. There are many objective ways that human behavior meaningfully impacts the process of evolution on Earth. I don't have the time to find sources or anything, but extinction events, usually involving large animals, have been reordered many times following the arrival of humans to a geographical location. We have the ability to reflect on our own behavior and choose to bahave differently in the future. Given that awareness, do we not carry responsibility for our behavior? That last sentence is obviously not a fact or objective truth. It's an assertion based on my own beliefs in compassion and the importance of reducing suffering in the world, but I urge you to consider it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- thwarted 7y ago
  But pretending that we have no impact or control of any kind in the process of evolution on Earth is just an attempt wash our hands of responsibility. Intelligence can be humanity's evolutionary advantage. But that does not mean humanity is the final arbiter of evolution, even of its own, at least at this stage of development. To think that humanity exists outside evolution, or that humanity's intelligence is not the result of evolution, is hubris, instead of being subject to evolution's "successes" and "failures". It's just as likely that our "intelligence" ends up being an evolutionary disadvantage if we end up making ourselves extinct, as being an evolutionary advantage. Yes, we'd have to take responsibility for that, but then I guess we pay the ultimate price,
graeme 7y ago
>why is RIGHT NOW the PERFECT moment in planetary evolution which must be preserved exactly, no matter the cost? Because it's the moment comfortable for humans and the civilization we built.
_rpd 7y ago
If nothing else, each species is a precious example of a DNA sequence that works. We are burning the book of life. It's worth the effort to preserve.

tehlike 7y ago

Because we like to believe we are intelligent animals that can prevent its own extinction.

TheRealDunkirk 7y ago
It's becoming increasingly clear that greed is beating intelligence. And, like, badly. Looks to me like nature will (eventually) have to balance the scales for us.

wongarsu 7y ago

Its perfectly normal for hunter and prey populations to oscillate. The hunters hunt a lot of prey, multiply, overhunt, prey population goes down, many hunters starve, prey population recovers and the cycle repeats. You see that a lot in animals, and humans are not immune to this. But as a species we might have overdone it, and nobody wants to see the crash as the ecosystems we rely on collapse. It won't be the end of the planet (whatever that even means), it won't be the end of life on earth's surface, it likely won't even be the end of humanity. But it might mean a lot of human death and suffering that could be avoided.

Tepix 7y ago

The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time. We know that a massive loss of species also threatens ourselves. We know that a rapid climate change also threatens mankind. Sure, you could argue that we're not worth saving. The human will to survive and its adaptability means we might be able to hang on, miserably vegetating on a poisoned world.

kmlx 7y ago
> The speed of change and extinction is vastly different this time. What about the Chicxulub asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs? That would have been much faster.

x3haloed 7y ago

Careful - the belief in evolution as a sacred and holy process is what leads to racism. I know you said you're half sarcastic, but that means you half-believe it. Evolution is simply a process by which generations of organisms become more fit to their environment over time. Treating it as something more - some kind of natural state of the universe or hand of destiny is what leads to the idea that it's necessary to facilitate it or perhaps remain uninvolved to allow it to come to a natural completion. That's a real compassion killer, and it pushes people to belive that their hate is righteous and that they maybe even should hate others in order to help facilitate the divine evolutionary process. To re-iterate: evolution is an observed phenomenon of the universe. That is fact. The ideas that it should be prioritized or respected or enhanced or left to do its work are all subjective beliefs, and that's a choice. Humans are a lot less important than we like to think. Less than specks of dust in this vast universe. But pretending that we have no impact or control of any kind in the process of evolution on Earth is just an attempt wash our hands of responsibility. There are many objective ways that human behavior meaningfully impacts the process of evolution on Earth. I don't have the time to find sources or anything, but extinction events, usually involving large animals, have been reordered many times following the arrival of humans to a geographical location. We have the ability to reflect on our own behavior and choose to bahave differently in the future. Given that awareness, do we not carry responsibility for our behavior? That last sentence is obviously not a fact or objective truth. It's an assertion based on my own beliefs in compassion and the importance of reducing suffering in the world, but I urge you to consider it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
thwarted 7y ago
But pretending that we have no impact or control of any kind in the process of evolution on Earth is just an attempt wash our hands of responsibility. Intelligence can be humanity's evolutionary advantage. But that does not mean humanity is the final arbiter of evolution, even of its own, at least at this stage of development. To think that humanity exists outside evolution, or that humanity's intelligence is not the result of evolution, is hubris, instead of being subject to evolution's "successes" and "failures". It's just as likely that our "intelligence" ends up being an evolutionary disadvantage if we end up making ourselves extinct, as being an evolutionary advantage. Yes, we'd have to take responsibility for that, but then I guess we pay the ultimate price,

graeme 7y ago

>why is RIGHT NOW the PERFECT moment in planetary evolution which must be preserved exactly, no matter the cost? Because it's the moment comfortable for humans and the civilization we built.

_rpd 7y ago

If nothing else, each species is a precious example of a DNA sequence that works. We are burning the book of life. It's worth the effort to preserve.