4 ms·

What a bunch of bullshit. I'm not a vegan, even though I'm sure you'll label me as having an "anti-meat agenda." I have substantially cut down on my own meat co

by MiroF 8y ago

What a bunch of bullshit. I'm not a vegan, even though I'm sure you'll label me as having an "anti-meat agenda." I have substantially cut down on my own meat consumption due to the environmental impact. > industrial agriculture as a whole is not sustainable, not just meat, and switching to a plants-based diet won’t save the planet. Just because two things both cause emissions doesn't mean one isn't much, much worse than the other. The emissions impact of meat is far worse than the alternatives - beef emits a factor of 17x as much GHG than tofu. Industrial farming at scale can oftentimes lower the GHG emissions per unit of food (that's how scaling works, actually). The problem with factory farms is when it is applied to (you guessed it) the mass production of meat. > Sorry, but most vegans have serious nutrient deficiencies, like proteins, vitamin B12 or K2. Humans are meant to be omnivores First, this is just not true and nutrient deficiencies can be easily substituted for. None of this is a reason to not "reduce your meat consumption," specifically when humans today consume substantially more meat than they ever did pre-agriculture (despite being "meant" to be omnivores). > The vegan diet is not sustainable Based on what? It's more resource sustainable than our current level of meat consumption, for sure. Look, you're free to make the choices you want - but don't pretend that they're more environmentally sustainable or rational than reducing your meat intake. You like meat and are putting your preference for meat above the associated environmental concerns. Be honest with yourself.

navigatesol 8y ago
>What a bunch of bullshit. I'm not a vegan, even though I'm sure you'll label me as having an "anti-meat agenda." I have substantially cut down on my own meat consumption due to the environmental impact. Do you fly less? Drive less or carpool? Recycle? Live in a small home? Did you decide to not to have children? Wear only used clothing? Do you track your trash and food waste? Do you eat less? Shower less? Do you donate money to environmental causes? The militant "your opinion is bullshit" on individual issues is precisely why the majority of people don't take climate change seriously. I'll continue to enjoy my meat and do my part in many other ways, thanks.
- Voloskaya 8y ago
  There is a drastic difference between saying: I still want to eat meat because I like it and I don't care about it's impact (or I offset the impact some other way like you say you do), and saying: vegan diet is not healthy or sustainable and thus no one should do it, and here are a bunch of pseudo-scientific facts to back my made up claims. The former is honest, the latter is a bunch of BS.
- fcarraldo 8y ago
  You can continue to enjoy your meat, but still ensure your diet contains a responsible amount of it. A diet with proportionally less meat is both healthier and more environmentally sustainable. I will never understand why Americans are personally affronted by the idea that they should eat less meat. What makes it such an insulting proposition?
  - MiroF 8y ago
    > What makes it such an insulting proposition? People are bred and raised with this axiomatic, individualist "you against the world" attitude from birth. There's a huge cultural divide. "Why the fuck should I have to ever give anything up that I don't want to, to help you? And fuck you for guilt-tripping me" is pretty much the standard fare.
  - TallGuyShort 8y ago
    In many places in America, the only (or at least the most vocal / visible by far) vegans you'll encounter tend to be weak, unhealthy, and obnoxious about their veganism. The hypocrisy makes it hard to take a rational look at the health benefits. These are the last 4 encounters I remember myself or someone close to me having with vegans: (1) Someone who spent 2 weeks traveling with family to a country that eats mostly meat, and spent the whole trip complaining about the food and lecturing the wait staff about their local culture. (and this as an adult - they chose to join the others on the trip) (2) Guy at the gym who lectured several people in class about their protein choices, whereas he's sick every other week, very weak, and lacks the endurance that even beginners in the class quickly develop. (3) Someone who showed up to a kids birthday party and complained about the non-vegan cake. (4) Coworker who came with the team on a lunch paid for by the company. Rude to restaurant staff who clearly speak English as a second language and didn't understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian. Now that's not meant as an insult to all vegans - I've switched to a mostly vegan diet myself. But you can almost entirely cut animal products out of your diet without needing to be a dick to people when they graciously serve you something else, or without lecturing people about health when you look like a late-stage AIDS victim. I think that puts people off. And yes, there's plenty of American meat-eaters who are equally obnoxious and close to death. But nobody wonders why people don't like them. Just more polarization because the other side's too extreme, so people go further the other way.
enraged_camel 8y ago
>>First, this is just not true and nutrient deficiencies can be easily substituted for. Wasn't there a story posted recently where a study found that nutritional supplements don't work?
- MiroF 8y ago
  I didn't say supplements - I said substitutes. Nutritional yeast is yummy and is an easy source of B12 (mind you - many meat eaters are also deficient in B12, so not really a vegan problem)

by MiroF 8y ago

navigatesol 8y ago

>What a bunch of bullshit. I'm not a vegan, even though I'm sure you'll label me as having an "anti-meat agenda." I have substantially cut down on my own meat consumption due to the environmental impact. Do you fly less? Drive less or carpool? Recycle? Live in a small home? Did you decide to not to have children? Wear only used clothing? Do you track your trash and food waste? Do you eat less? Shower less? Do you donate money to environmental causes? The militant "your opinion is bullshit" on individual issues is precisely why the majority of people don't take climate change seriously. I'll continue to enjoy my meat and do my part in many other ways, thanks.

Voloskaya 8y ago
There is a drastic difference between saying: I still want to eat meat because I like it and I don't care about it's impact (or I offset the impact some other way like you say you do), and saying: vegan diet is not healthy or sustainable and thus no one should do it, and here are a bunch of pseudo-scientific facts to back my made up claims. The former is honest, the latter is a bunch of BS.
fcarraldo 8y ago
You can continue to enjoy your meat, but still ensure your diet contains a responsible amount of it. A diet with proportionally less meat is both healthier and more environmentally sustainable. I will never understand why Americans are personally affronted by the idea that they should eat less meat. What makes it such an insulting proposition?
- MiroF 8y ago
  > What makes it such an insulting proposition? People are bred and raised with this axiomatic, individualist "you against the world" attitude from birth. There's a huge cultural divide. "Why the fuck should I have to ever give anything up that I don't want to, to help you? And fuck you for guilt-tripping me" is pretty much the standard fare.
- TallGuyShort 8y ago
  In many places in America, the only (or at least the most vocal / visible by far) vegans you'll encounter tend to be weak, unhealthy, and obnoxious about their veganism. The hypocrisy makes it hard to take a rational look at the health benefits. These are the last 4 encounters I remember myself or someone close to me having with vegans: (1) Someone who spent 2 weeks traveling with family to a country that eats mostly meat, and spent the whole trip complaining about the food and lecturing the wait staff about their local culture. (and this as an adult - they chose to join the others on the trip) (2) Guy at the gym who lectured several people in class about their protein choices, whereas he's sick every other week, very weak, and lacks the endurance that even beginners in the class quickly develop. (3) Someone who showed up to a kids birthday party and complained about the non-vegan cake. (4) Coworker who came with the team on a lunch paid for by the company. Rude to restaurant staff who clearly speak English as a second language and didn't understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian. Now that's not meant as an insult to all vegans - I've switched to a mostly vegan diet myself. But you can almost entirely cut animal products out of your diet without needing to be a dick to people when they graciously serve you something else, or without lecturing people about health when you look like a late-stage AIDS victim. I think that puts people off. And yes, there's plenty of American meat-eaters who are equally obnoxious and close to death. But nobody wonders why people don't like them. Just more polarization because the other side's too extreme, so people go further the other way.

enraged_camel 8y ago

>>First, this is just not true and nutrient deficiencies can be easily substituted for. Wasn't there a story posted recently where a study found that nutritional supplements don't work?

MiroF 8y ago
I didn't say supplements - I said substitutes. Nutritional yeast is yummy and is an easy source of B12 (mind you - many meat eaters are also deficient in B12, so not really a vegan problem)