8 ms·

Why not go vegan? Sure, anything is better than nothing, but a vegan diet is best of all. Plus, dairy, especially when consumed as cheese, is worse than some me

by uhtred 7y ago

Why not go vegan? Sure, anything is better than nothing, but a vegan diet is best of all. Plus, dairy, especially when consumed as cheese, is worse than some meat in terms of environmental impact.

MiroF 7y ago
Personally I think that we need to change what it means to be standard vegetarian - add fish, remove dairy. Better for the environment and perhaps easier for people to switch to! Currently, I have to go around calling myself a "lacto-pescatarian" which is far too much of a mouthful
- foobiekr 7y ago
  It would be far better for the planet for vegetarians to eat chicken than to continue to support the fishing industry.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    Fish farms are more environmentally sustainable than chicken farms. Overfishing is a problem but it's not the only way to get fish
    - foobiekr 7y ago
      I think it's more complex than that [1]. But I also think that seafood is inseparable from overfishing as an industry. [1] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa273/metahttps://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa273/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa273/...
jniedrauer 7y ago
Going completely vegan is pretty difficult. You can get 95% of the way there with a pesco-vegetarian diet for half of the effort and cost.
- uhtred 7y ago
  Why is it difficult? If someone is still eating eggs, dairy and fish they are not 95% of the way to being vegan. And cost? What makes you think being vegan is more expensive than eating animal products?
  - jniedrauer 7y ago
    > If someone is still eating eggs, dairy and fish they are not 95% of the way to being vegan. 95% is obviously not a real number, but it's not far off when you actually look at the environmental impact of different foods[0] > And cost? What makes you think being vegan is more expensive than eating animal products? I should specify that being vegan and remaining healthy is more expensive than eating animal products. You could probably survive on lentils and be ok... for a while. But your diet will not be balanced. To eat a balanced vegan diet, you will need to buy a lot of fresh foods in comparatively higher quantities, and the cost adds up. Semi-vegetarians and pesco-vegetarians seem to have the most balanced diets[1] [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climate-change-food-eating-habits.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climat... [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/
    - uhtred 7y ago
      If someone is pesco-vegetarian and eating a lot of dairy, especially cheese, and fish, then their environmental footprint would be way higher than someone (a vegan) who is not eating those things. The NY times article you linked shows just that.
      - jniedrauer 7y ago
        You'll notice that I didn't say "your environmental impact will automatically be reduced to near that of a vegan diet by eating a pesco-vegetarian diet." Changing to a new category of diet does not absolve you of the need to make responsible decisions. You could technically be a very wasteful vegan and have a higher carbon footprint than an omnivore. You could also be a responsible human being and eat a conservative vegetarian diet that is roughly equivalent to a vegan diet but much easier to execute.
mrnobody_67 7y ago
The most calorie dense food is the least healthiest... when you have tens of millions of people with no savings and with little food security in the USA... it's easier said than done. The US also has over 23m people living in "Food Deserts" - https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-food-deserts https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-food-des... and http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-access-research-atlas/go-to-the-atlas.aspx http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-access-research-a...

by uhtred 7y ago

Why not go vegan? Sure, anything is better than nothing, but a vegan diet is best of all. Plus, dairy, especially when consumed as cheese, is worse than some meat in terms of environmental impact.

MiroF 7y ago

Personally I think that we need to change what it means to be standard vegetarian - add fish, remove dairy. Better for the environment and perhaps easier for people to switch to! Currently, I have to go around calling myself a "lacto-pescatarian" which is far too much of a mouthful

foobiekr 7y ago
It would be far better for the planet for vegetarians to eat chicken than to continue to support the fishing industry.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Fish farms are more environmentally sustainable than chicken farms. Overfishing is a problem but it's not the only way to get fish
  - foobiekr 7y ago
    I think it's more complex than that [1]. But I also think that seafood is inseparable from overfishing as an industry. [1] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa273/metahttps://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa273/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa273/...

jniedrauer 7y ago

Going completely vegan is pretty difficult. You can get 95% of the way there with a pesco-vegetarian diet for half of the effort and cost.

uhtred 7y ago
Why is it difficult? If someone is still eating eggs, dairy and fish they are not 95% of the way to being vegan. And cost? What makes you think being vegan is more expensive than eating animal products?
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  > If someone is still eating eggs, dairy and fish they are not 95% of the way to being vegan. 95% is obviously not a real number, but it's not far off when you actually look at the environmental impact of different foods[0] > And cost? What makes you think being vegan is more expensive than eating animal products? I should specify that being vegan and remaining healthy is more expensive than eating animal products. You could probably survive on lentils and be ok... for a while. But your diet will not be balanced. To eat a balanced vegan diet, you will need to buy a lot of fresh foods in comparatively higher quantities, and the cost adds up. Semi-vegetarians and pesco-vegetarians seem to have the most balanced diets[1] [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climate-change-food-eating-habits.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/30/dining/climat... [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/
  - uhtred 7y ago
    If someone is pesco-vegetarian and eating a lot of dairy, especially cheese, and fish, then their environmental footprint would be way higher than someone (a vegan) who is not eating those things. The NY times article you linked shows just that.
    - jniedrauer 7y ago
      You'll notice that I didn't say "your environmental impact will automatically be reduced to near that of a vegan diet by eating a pesco-vegetarian diet." Changing to a new category of diet does not absolve you of the need to make responsible decisions. You could technically be a very wasteful vegan and have a higher carbon footprint than an omnivore. You could also be a responsible human being and eat a conservative vegetarian diet that is roughly equivalent to a vegan diet but much easier to execute.

mrnobody_67 7y ago

The most calorie dense food is the least healthiest... when you have tens of millions of people with no savings and with little food security in the USA... it's easier said than done. The US also has over 23m people living in "Food Deserts" - https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-food-deserts https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-food-des... and http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-access-research-atlas/go-to-the-atlas.aspx http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-access-research-a...