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Except it's also not. As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. What's worst, they're exporting those practices to Africa. Meanwhile, the Anglo-We

Except it's also not. As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. What's worst, they're exporting those practices to Africa. Meanwhile, the Anglo-West is hyper-focused on the US because there's a president they don't like. This has been a blessing (now the average Anglo-Westerner at least pretends to care about the environment), but also a curse (they think the US is the only country that can save humanity).

_Microft 7y ago
The per-capita emissions in the US are about twice to 2.5 times as high as that of a british citizen. Maybe it's just that there are the low hanging fruits? It's easier to reduce 1 ton of annual CO_2 emissions when you're producing 17 tons per year and person (like in the US) than when you're at 6 tons like the Brits. In either case, it would be 1 ton saved per year but it's only a 6% reduction for someone in the US but a 17% reduction of their yearly emission for a Brit.
MiroF 7y ago
There's actually a whole body of literature out there on climate justice, if you want to take a look for answers. One of the primary ones is that most of the developed world has gotten to the quality of life it has today through very high historic emission levels (and continues to have higher per capita emissions). Additional emissions in the West go towards maintaining our very, very high quality of life - emissions in the developing world (like Asia) go towards bringing millions of people out of poverty. Asia may be the largest polluter by far, it also happens to be the continent with the most people and the most people in poverty. Nobody thinks that the US is the only country that can save humanity (even if the US cut to 0, that wouldn't be sufficient, although it'd be approaching it), but if the US, which easily emits 4-6x more than most people per capita is unwilling to cut, than we are totally FUBAR on a global scale.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Except it's also not. As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. That doesn't mean that US policy can't address the problem; US policy—on climate as well as most other things—need not be limited to domestic policy.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Exactly. For example the US could collect a "carbon duty" at the border on all imports. If the source nation has already collected a carbon tax or equivalent, it avoids the carbon duty.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Some people were hoping Trump’s proposed Border Adjustment Tax could have done double duty of this sort
zajd 7y ago
https://wriorg.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/uploads/cumulative_emissions.png https://wriorg.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/uploads/cumulati...
bryanlarsen 7y ago
- US per capita emissions are more than double China's. - China is taking concrete steps to reduce emissions: capping coal production, switching to electric buses, et cetera - For better or worse other countries are far more likely to say "why should we reduce emissions if even the US won't" than to say "why should we reduce emissions if China won't".
perfunctory 7y ago
> As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. Don't forget that a lot of that pollution is due to production for western consumption.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
How much of that is as a result of them manufacturing the vast majority of our stuff? Essentially we outsourced a proportion of our emissions. USA is doing terribly thanks to having by far the largest emissions per head, dramatically in excess of anywhere else. Asia is doing poorly thanks to having larger populations, developing apace and being home to much of the world's manufacturing. UK is just about world's worst for historic cumulative emissions thanks to being home of the industrial revolution. Shall I go on? It's everyone's problem, and needs addressing everywhere, at every election. Anything else is just finger-pointing excuses not to act.
mikeash 7y ago
The US gets the attention because they’re the only powerful country fighting against the sort of collective action we need to take.
- zaroth 7y ago
  Would you mind substantiating that claim a bit? It seems false on the face of it, but I don’t want to strawman your argument just to shoot it down if there’s more to it. Russia and China are not fighting against the sort of collective action we need to take?
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Russia is not powerful and China is not fighting it.
mempko 7y ago
what is an anglo-westerner?
TheBeardKing 7y ago
Per capita, North America is 4.6x worse than Asia: https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/10/CO2-emissions-by-income-and-region.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/10/CO2-emissions-by-...
dredmorbius 7y ago
The US can play a leadership role. It's abdicated that position presently.

_Microft 7y ago

The per-capita emissions in the US are about twice to 2.5 times as high as that of a british citizen. Maybe it's just that there are the low hanging fruits? It's easier to reduce 1 ton of annual CO_2 emissions when you're producing 17 tons per year and person (like in the US) than when you're at 6 tons like the Brits. In either case, it would be 1 ton saved per year but it's only a 6% reduction for someone in the US but a 17% reduction of their yearly emission for a Brit.

MiroF 7y ago

There's actually a whole body of literature out there on climate justice, if you want to take a look for answers. One of the primary ones is that most of the developed world has gotten to the quality of life it has today through very high historic emission levels (and continues to have higher per capita emissions). Additional emissions in the West go towards maintaining our very, very high quality of life - emissions in the developing world (like Asia) go towards bringing millions of people out of poverty. Asia may be the largest polluter by far, it also happens to be the continent with the most people and the most people in poverty. Nobody thinks that the US is the only country that can save humanity (even if the US cut to 0, that wouldn't be sufficient, although it'd be approaching it), but if the US, which easily emits 4-6x more than most people per capita is unwilling to cut, than we are totally FUBAR on a global scale.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Except it's also not. As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. That doesn't mean that US policy can't address the problem; US policy—on climate as well as most other things—need not be limited to domestic policy.

bryanlarsen 7y ago
Exactly. For example the US could collect a "carbon duty" at the border on all imports. If the source nation has already collected a carbon tax or equivalent, it avoids the carbon duty.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Some people were hoping Trump’s proposed Border Adjustment Tax could have done double duty of this sort

zajd 7y ago

https://wriorg.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/uploads/cumulative_emissions.png https://wriorg.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/uploads/cumulati...

bryanlarsen 7y ago

- US per capita emissions are more than double China's. - China is taking concrete steps to reduce emissions: capping coal production, switching to electric buses, et cetera - For better or worse other countries are far more likely to say "why should we reduce emissions if even the US won't" than to say "why should we reduce emissions if China won't".

perfunctory 7y ago

> As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. Don't forget that a lot of that pollution is due to production for western consumption.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

How much of that is as a result of them manufacturing the vast majority of our stuff? Essentially we outsourced a proportion of our emissions. USA is doing terribly thanks to having by far the largest emissions per head, dramatically in excess of anywhere else. Asia is doing poorly thanks to having larger populations, developing apace and being home to much of the world's manufacturing. UK is just about world's worst for historic cumulative emissions thanks to being home of the industrial revolution. Shall I go on? It's everyone's problem, and needs addressing everywhere, at every election. Anything else is just finger-pointing excuses not to act.

mikeash 7y ago

The US gets the attention because they’re the only powerful country fighting against the sort of collective action we need to take.

zaroth 7y ago
Would you mind substantiating that claim a bit? It seems false on the face of it, but I don’t want to strawman your argument just to shoot it down if there’s more to it. Russia and China are not fighting against the sort of collective action we need to take?
- mikeash 7y ago
  Russia is not powerful and China is not fighting it.

mempko 7y ago

what is an anglo-westerner?

TheBeardKing 7y ago

Per capita, North America is 4.6x worse than Asia: https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/10/CO2-emissions-by-income-and-region.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/10/CO2-emissions-by-...

dredmorbius 7y ago

The US can play a leadership role. It's abdicated that position presently.