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> Look at schools. We live in a school district that’s extremely proactive about addressing bullying. Yet, our friend’s kid recently had water poured over her h

> Look at schools. We live in a school district that’s extremely proactive about addressing bullying. Yet, our friend’s kid recently had water poured over her head on the bus. If you can’t banish physical violence in schools, among normal children, is there any prospect of doing the same in prisons? Pouring water on someone's head !== rape (obviously). Saying that we can't do anything about extreme, widespread violence in the prison system because we haven't yet managed to completely eradicate the mildest forms of physical bullying in schools is a ridiculous argument. If the problem really is the interaction between prisoners, then we should simply stop those specific interactions taking place (or change the circumstances, so that they don't result in violence). I'd like to live in a society where we prioritise (funding for) that over pranks in schools.

sokoloff 7y ago
I suspect most people would favor improving school outcomes over prison inmate outcomes, when taxation and funding decisions are put to them. I’m not saying your point is not a virtuous one, but it’s likely an uphill battle to make that the majority opinion. If you forced me to pick exactly one (not the actual choice society faces), I probably lean towards schools as well.
rayiner 7y ago
Obviously the outcome is worse. And obviously prisoners are capable of much more extreme violence than school children. But all that is a function of the prisoners and their choices and actions, not the government. The kind of violence that happens in prisons isn’t easier to detect and prevent. A stabbing can happen in the blink of an eye. I don’t see why you think funding is an issue. Our prisons are extremely well funded.
- ckastner 7y ago
  > But all that is a function of the prisoners and their choices and actions, not the government. Seeing as the prisoners are in government custody, I don't see how the government can be ruled out as a factor of the aforementioned function. > The kind of violence that happens in prisons isn’t easier to detect and prevent. It is easier, though. A prison is a (comparatively tiny) sealed environment with strictly controlled borders, above-average monitoring (CCTV), and an extremely limited population. The fact that, given these constraints, stabbings can still happen in the blink of an eye, or that rape can still happen, is (I believe) the entire point.

sokoloff 7y ago

I suspect most people would favor improving school outcomes over prison inmate outcomes, when taxation and funding decisions are put to them. I’m not saying your point is not a virtuous one, but it’s likely an uphill battle to make that the majority opinion. If you forced me to pick exactly one (not the actual choice society faces), I probably lean towards schools as well.

rayiner 7y ago

Obviously the outcome is worse. And obviously prisoners are capable of much more extreme violence than school children. But all that is a function of the prisoners and their choices and actions, not the government. The kind of violence that happens in prisons isn’t easier to detect and prevent. A stabbing can happen in the blink of an eye. I don’t see why you think funding is an issue. Our prisons are extremely well funded.

ckastner 7y ago
> But all that is a function of the prisoners and their choices and actions, not the government. Seeing as the prisoners are in government custody, I don't see how the government can be ruled out as a factor of the aforementioned function. > The kind of violence that happens in prisons isn’t easier to detect and prevent. It is easier, though. A prison is a (comparatively tiny) sealed environment with strictly controlled borders, above-average monitoring (CCTV), and an extremely limited population. The fact that, given these constraints, stabbings can still happen in the blink of an eye, or that rape can still happen, is (I believe) the entire point.