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>It really doesn't happen as often as internet comments would make you think. How about the US Justice Department? >"After asking around, and performing some

>It really doesn't happen as often as internet comments would make you think. How about the US Justice Department? >"After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That’s 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008" https://nplusonemag.com/issue-13/politics/raise-the-crime-rate/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-13/politics/raise-the-crime-ra...

marcinzm 7y ago
There are over 2.2 million people in US correction facilities and probably more if you count over a whole year. That gives a rate of under 10% which is high but supports the previous comment of the vast majority of prisoners not being assaulted.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Exactly. If you assume the population in general is "people caught up in violent crime", "people unlucky enough to be caught for petty crime" and "everyone else" then take a sampling of the first two groups (i.e. prison) and then re-check your crime stats of course it's going to look bad compared to the overall population stats. That doesn't mean the risk of becoming a victim of violence for the "people unlucky enough to be caught for petty crime" group goes up anymore than it would if they suddenly found themselves in equal contact with the "people caught up in violent crime" group outside of prison.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    I suspect that victims of rape in prison are not chosen through mere association any more than they are outside of it.
- Retric 7y ago
  A large number of people are in prison for multiple years. 10% of prisoners are serving 10+ years making that “10%” risk each year rather scary. Actual lifetime risks of the median prisoner are hard to calculate, but may exceed 40%.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    Thank you for making this point. Am amazed (and not in a good way, I have been biting my tongue) at how dismissive people seem to be of a ten percent risk of being raped in a given year.
simonh 7y ago
So about one in ten prisoners. That’s not good, but if you can avoid serving time in a medium or high security institution that chance is a lot lower, and of course a lot higher if you can’t.
kbutler 7y ago
prevalence of sexual abuse in penitentiaries. The reliance on filed complaints appeared to understate the problem. For 2008, for example, the government had previously tallied 935 confirmed instances of sexual abuse. After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That’s 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008, likely making the United States the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women. Did you catch the shift in targets? "Prevalence of sexual abuse" (undefined)..."prison rape". I've been unable to find the DoJ report this is coming from to find their definition of abuse, but the 216,000 number is thrown around a lot in the press - but never with a traceable reference I can find (and details vary - sometimes 2008, 2011, sometimes "at least", etc.) One other factor is that a large amount of the abuse is guards/staff abuse of inmates, so it isn't just "criminals in close association with criminals".
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  This. Been there, seen it.
Fjolsvith 7y ago
I spent over 10 years in various prisons. Never once during those ten years was anyone raped in any of them. Prisoners joke about it, threaten it, but will not do it, for the one reason called DNA evidence. It would really suck to become a sex offender while you're in prison. There is also another saying from prison - "If you don't say 'No', it ain't rape." Most guys who get into trouble (typically from debt), end up selling their ass.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > I spent over 10 years in various prisons. Never once during those ten years was anyone raped in any of them. I doubt it. > Prisoners joke about it, threaten it, but will not do it, for the one reason called DNA evidence. It would really suck to become a sex offender while you're in prison. Plenty of people in prison are already sex offenders, or are never getting out in any case (so that being required to register as a ex offender when they do is moot), so while that may dissuade some, it's clearly not going to be a universally applicable deterrent. Of course, even where it applies, that's more of a reason to assure that a rape isn't reported and investigated, which can be done by means other than not committing it, such as being sure that the victim is sufficiently afraid of violent retaliation if a report occurs. > There is also another saying from prison - "If you don't say 'No', it ain't rape." That may be a saying in prison (and one which serves to discouraging reporting of rapes), but it's not an accurate statement about the law.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    > That may be a saying in prison (and one which serves to discouraging reporting of rapes), but it's not an accurate statement about the law. We are talking about people who don't respect the law. > Of course, even where it applies, that's more of a reason to assure that a rape isn't reported and investigated, which can be done by means other than not committing it, such as being sure that the victim is sufficiently afraid of violent retaliation if a report occurs. So by your logic, just because there aren't reports and investigations, it actually proves it is happening.
    - 7y ago

marcinzm 7y ago

There are over 2.2 million people in US correction facilities and probably more if you count over a whole year. That gives a rate of under 10% which is high but supports the previous comment of the vast majority of prisoners not being assaulted.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Exactly. If you assume the population in general is "people caught up in violent crime", "people unlucky enough to be caught for petty crime" and "everyone else" then take a sampling of the first two groups (i.e. prison) and then re-check your crime stats of course it's going to look bad compared to the overall population stats. That doesn't mean the risk of becoming a victim of violence for the "people unlucky enough to be caught for petty crime" group goes up anymore than it would if they suddenly found themselves in equal contact with the "people caught up in violent crime" group outside of prison.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  I suspect that victims of rape in prison are not chosen through mere association any more than they are outside of it.
Retric 7y ago
A large number of people are in prison for multiple years. 10% of prisoners are serving 10+ years making that “10%” risk each year rather scary. Actual lifetime risks of the median prisoner are hard to calculate, but may exceed 40%.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  Thank you for making this point. Am amazed (and not in a good way, I have been biting my tongue) at how dismissive people seem to be of a ten percent risk of being raped in a given year.

simonh 7y ago

So about one in ten prisoners. That’s not good, but if you can avoid serving time in a medium or high security institution that chance is a lot lower, and of course a lot higher if you can’t.

kbutler 7y ago

prevalence of sexual abuse in penitentiaries. The reliance on filed complaints appeared to understate the problem. For 2008, for example, the government had previously tallied 935 confirmed instances of sexual abuse. After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That’s 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008, likely making the United States the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women. Did you catch the shift in targets? "Prevalence of sexual abuse" (undefined)..."prison rape". I've been unable to find the DoJ report this is coming from to find their definition of abuse, but the 216,000 number is thrown around a lot in the press - but never with a traceable reference I can find (and details vary - sometimes 2008, 2011, sometimes "at least", etc.) One other factor is that a large amount of the abuse is guards/staff abuse of inmates, so it isn't just "criminals in close association with criminals".

Fjolsvith 7y ago
This. Been there, seen it.

Fjolsvith 7y ago

I spent over 10 years in various prisons. Never once during those ten years was anyone raped in any of them. Prisoners joke about it, threaten it, but will not do it, for the one reason called DNA evidence. It would really suck to become a sex offender while you're in prison. There is also another saying from prison - "If you don't say 'No', it ain't rape." Most guys who get into trouble (typically from debt), end up selling their ass.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> I spent over 10 years in various prisons. Never once during those ten years was anyone raped in any of them. I doubt it. > Prisoners joke about it, threaten it, but will not do it, for the one reason called DNA evidence. It would really suck to become a sex offender while you're in prison. Plenty of people in prison are already sex offenders, or are never getting out in any case (so that being required to register as a ex offender when they do is moot), so while that may dissuade some, it's clearly not going to be a universally applicable deterrent. Of course, even where it applies, that's more of a reason to assure that a rape isn't reported and investigated, which can be done by means other than not committing it, such as being sure that the victim is sufficiently afraid of violent retaliation if a report occurs. > There is also another saying from prison - "If you don't say 'No', it ain't rape." That may be a saying in prison (and one which serves to discouraging reporting of rapes), but it's not an accurate statement about the law.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  > That may be a saying in prison (and one which serves to discouraging reporting of rapes), but it's not an accurate statement about the law. We are talking about people who don't respect the law. > Of course, even where it applies, that's more of a reason to assure that a rape isn't reported and investigated, which can be done by means other than not committing it, such as being sure that the victim is sufficiently afraid of violent retaliation if a report occurs. So by your logic, just because there aren't reports and investigations, it actually proves it is happening.
  - 7y ago