7 ms·

The sour science driving James Harden's vexing genius

56 points by kqr2 7y ago

blah-blahblah 7y ago
``` That gap can't be explained solely through Harden's unprecedented prowess on unassisted 3s and how much it frightens defenders. It's about antics, man ... When we look at the league's most voluminous 3-point shooters over the past three seasons, we see Harden's foul rate is more than twice as high as any of the league's other top marksmen. ``` It's a little odd that Goldsberry recognizes that Harden's 3pt attempts might be different than most 3pt attempts but then only compares his foul rates to other people taking threes. The style of shot (catch/shoot, unassisted, etc) is much more important for fouls than the type (2pt/3pt). If Harden gets a lot more fouls when shooting unassisted jumpers, including 3 pointers, than everyone else shooting unassisted jump shots then maybe it's antics. Otherwise, comparing fouls on Harden's 3 pointers to fouls on Khris Middleton's 3 pointers is like comparing fouls on Rip Hamilton's 2 pointers to Shaq's 2 pointers.
- as300 7y ago
  It's a limited comparison, I agree, but I think it still tells part of the story. Curry shoots fewer threes but the same kind, and he can't buy the types of calls Harden gets
eBombzor 7y ago
> Unless the league proactively addresses its rules and these whistle-chasing tactics, free throws stand to become the next version of corner 3s, with the league's smartest teams and players racing to find new ways to get them. The NBA will probably crack down on this at some point considering how awful it is to watch Houston's games sometimes. I never knew that Harden's flopping was born from a strategic team effort. Makes sense since you have the #1 and #2 floppers in the league on the same team.
- CalChris 7y ago
  They already cracked down on it to a degree this season with the new Harden rule. If a player has not yet gathered the ball when contact occurs, it’s a common foul, not a shooting foul. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-nbas-newly-imposed-harden-rule-will-impact-james-harden-this-season/ https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-nbas-newly-impose...
  - chomp 7y ago
    Yep he got his own rule. It's still only part of the strategy though. Another foul draw comes from using "normal offensive movement" when shooting, aka jump and move forward, and get a foul called when the defensive player is in your way and doesn't provide room to land. I know Rockets ball gets a lot of flak and isn't fun to watch all of the time, but as a Houston fan, I admire the amount of time that goes into hacking the metagame. I've always thought that the base mechanics of basketball are fundamentally broken, and I'm surprised that it's only in the last few years that people have figured out how to exploit it (or maybe it's only now that someone is finally shameless enough to exploit it).
    - jaden 7y ago
      Exploiting loopholes reduces the quality of the game and it's just not as fun to watch. The idea that this is a calculated, team effort is annoying. Too bad there isn't a way to give a whole team a technical foul.
      - achompas 7y ago
        I understand this sentiment but let’s call out all of the spades. Another loophole: Kevin Durant signing with the Warriors. This team took advantage of a one year salary jump resulting from TV revenue which granted them exactly the max slot money they needed to sign the second-best basketball player in the world (at the time - he is arguably the best in 2019). The NBA gaffed here, honestly. They could have negotiated a smooth salary cap raise with the union over several years. They refused, and it led to arguably the greatest superteam in league history (and this comes from a Heat fan who remembers LeBron + Wade + Bosh very clearly). One good metagame play deserves another.
mr-ron 7y ago
I've heard the argument on /r/nba that one key to James getting fouls is his beard. He throws his head back, and his whole chin bounces up and makes it super noticable to the refs. A big part of drawing fouls is getting the ref to be looking at you and seeing contact, and waving a big beard in the air gets a lot of attention
- jaden 7y ago
  That's the first good reason I've heard for why he maintains such a long beard. I wonder if it was a calculated decision.
  - hnbroseph 7y ago
    is "because he likes it" a "good reason"?
Causality1 7y ago
In my opinion a good way to address this behavior is by crawling over game footage from multiple cameras after the game itself. Anyone caught flopping should be served with a multi-game suspension. Flopping is just as much cheating as bribing a referee would be.
- krupan 7y ago
  This is a great idea. Not only is flopping cheating, it's dangerous. Harden was legitimately poked in the eye recently and when he went down everyone ignored him, precisely because of his history of faking injury. Officials need to know when an injury is real.
  - jbigelow76 7y ago
    If you get legitimately injured but it gets ignored because you fake it that often (and your team suffers as a result), seems like a problem that would sort itself out.
    - Causality1 7y ago
      Obviously that's not happening or this article wouldn't exist.
    - philwelch 7y ago
      I’m reminded of the time Carmelo Anthony got injured, collapsed onto the floor, and was ignored by all nine other players for two possessions due to his reputation for flopping.
      - awad 7y ago
        Remember when the Lakers had to intentionally foul and stop the game to pull out Kobe after he tore his achilles?
    - mrob 7y ago
      All pro athletes accept risk of injury as the price of being the best. If you refuse to take risks then you'll be beaten by somebody who does. Even if the expected value for the team as a whole is negative, it often still makes sense to take the risk, because "best in the world" earns you so much more (including earnings from adverts/speeches/movie deals/etc.) than 2nd best. The rules are supposed to prevent this race to the bottom.
licyeus 7y ago
The Rockets allegedly track ref tendencies and feed that info to their players (Harden included) so that they can better draw fouls. [1] Can't say I fault a team for doing everything within the rules to win, but it sure makes the games hard to watch (and I say that as a fan of both the league and Harden + CP3). 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyuIEMdOi_E&feature=youtu.be&t=294 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyuIEMdOi_E&feature=youtu.be...
clairity 7y ago
it's a tricky balancing act. i just watched two of his 3-point foul draws in the game tonight (one deserved, the other not so much). a little bit of foul shopping keeps the other team's defense honest, but harden does it so much that it's frustrating. players really shouldn't be rewarded for constantly baiting opponents into fouls. fractional free throws to nullify the advantage would be odd, and not calling fouls consistently would be even more maddening, so the solution isn't straightforward. with that said, harden really is fun to watch when he's not just fishing for fouls.
m3kw9 7y ago
I’d say the best play is the 4 point play back breakers
thelock85 7y ago
The evolution of the game is based on hacking the rules. The step back 3-pointer is based on the fact that you can take two steps and glide to the rim (layup or floater) or one step sideways, then back and jump shoot (fadeaway) so why not take two steps back then jump forward (step back 3) which you have to do anyway to create enough forward momentum on your shot to avoid muscling the shot (Lebron-style step back 3) and getting tired eventually (if you're not Lebron). It's innovation at its finest, or better yet, iteration. Because anyone watching the game knows that Steph Curry made the step back 3 a game changer in today's NBA. Harden just perfected it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

56 points by kqr2 7y ago

``` That gap can't be explained solely through Harden's unprecedented prowess on unassisted 3s and how much it frightens defenders. It's about antics, man ... When we look at the league's most voluminous 3-point shooters over the past three seasons, we see Harden's foul rate is more than twice as high as any of the league's other top marksmen. ``` It's a little odd that Goldsberry recognizes that Harden's 3pt attempts might be different than most 3pt attempts but then only compares his foul rates to other people taking threes. The style of shot (catch/shoot, unassisted, etc) is much more important for fouls than the type (2pt/3pt). If Harden gets a lot more fouls when shooting unassisted jumpers, including 3 pointers, than everyone else shooting unassisted jump shots then maybe it's antics. Otherwise, comparing fouls on Harden's 3 pointers to fouls on Khris Middleton's 3 pointers is like comparing fouls on Rip Hamilton's 2 pointers to Shaq's 2 pointers.

as300 7y ago
It's a limited comparison, I agree, but I think it still tells part of the story. Curry shoots fewer threes but the same kind, and he can't buy the types of calls Harden gets

eBombzor 7y ago

> Unless the league proactively addresses its rules and these whistle-chasing tactics, free throws stand to become the next version of corner 3s, with the league's smartest teams and players racing to find new ways to get them. The NBA will probably crack down on this at some point considering how awful it is to watch Houston's games sometimes. I never knew that Harden's flopping was born from a strategic team effort. Makes sense since you have the #1 and #2 floppers in the league on the same team.

CalChris 7y ago
They already cracked down on it to a degree this season with the new Harden rule. If a player has not yet gathered the ball when contact occurs, it’s a common foul, not a shooting foul. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-nbas-newly-imposed-harden-rule-will-impact-james-harden-this-season/ https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-nbas-newly-impose...
- chomp 7y ago
  Yep he got his own rule. It's still only part of the strategy though. Another foul draw comes from using "normal offensive movement" when shooting, aka jump and move forward, and get a foul called when the defensive player is in your way and doesn't provide room to land. I know Rockets ball gets a lot of flak and isn't fun to watch all of the time, but as a Houston fan, I admire the amount of time that goes into hacking the metagame. I've always thought that the base mechanics of basketball are fundamentally broken, and I'm surprised that it's only in the last few years that people have figured out how to exploit it (or maybe it's only now that someone is finally shameless enough to exploit it).
  - jaden 7y ago
    Exploiting loopholes reduces the quality of the game and it's just not as fun to watch. The idea that this is a calculated, team effort is annoying. Too bad there isn't a way to give a whole team a technical foul.
    - achompas 7y ago
      I understand this sentiment but let’s call out all of the spades. Another loophole: Kevin Durant signing with the Warriors. This team took advantage of a one year salary jump resulting from TV revenue which granted them exactly the max slot money they needed to sign the second-best basketball player in the world (at the time - he is arguably the best in 2019). The NBA gaffed here, honestly. They could have negotiated a smooth salary cap raise with the union over several years. They refused, and it led to arguably the greatest superteam in league history (and this comes from a Heat fan who remembers LeBron + Wade + Bosh very clearly). One good metagame play deserves another.

mr-ron 7y ago

I've heard the argument on /r/nba that one key to James getting fouls is his beard. He throws his head back, and his whole chin bounces up and makes it super noticable to the refs. A big part of drawing fouls is getting the ref to be looking at you and seeing contact, and waving a big beard in the air gets a lot of attention

jaden 7y ago
That's the first good reason I've heard for why he maintains such a long beard. I wonder if it was a calculated decision.
- hnbroseph 7y ago
  is "because he likes it" a "good reason"?

Causality1 7y ago

In my opinion a good way to address this behavior is by crawling over game footage from multiple cameras after the game itself. Anyone caught flopping should be served with a multi-game suspension. Flopping is just as much cheating as bribing a referee would be.

krupan 7y ago
This is a great idea. Not only is flopping cheating, it's dangerous. Harden was legitimately poked in the eye recently and when he went down everyone ignored him, precisely because of his history of faking injury. Officials need to know when an injury is real.
- jbigelow76 7y ago
  If you get legitimately injured but it gets ignored because you fake it that often (and your team suffers as a result), seems like a problem that would sort itself out.
  - Causality1 7y ago
    Obviously that's not happening or this article wouldn't exist.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    I’m reminded of the time Carmelo Anthony got injured, collapsed onto the floor, and was ignored by all nine other players for two possessions due to his reputation for flopping.
    - awad 7y ago
      Remember when the Lakers had to intentionally foul and stop the game to pull out Kobe after he tore his achilles?
  - mrob 7y ago
    All pro athletes accept risk of injury as the price of being the best. If you refuse to take risks then you'll be beaten by somebody who does. Even if the expected value for the team as a whole is negative, it often still makes sense to take the risk, because "best in the world" earns you so much more (including earnings from adverts/speeches/movie deals/etc.) than 2nd best. The rules are supposed to prevent this race to the bottom.

licyeus 7y ago

The Rockets allegedly track ref tendencies and feed that info to their players (Harden included) so that they can better draw fouls. [1] Can't say I fault a team for doing everything within the rules to win, but it sure makes the games hard to watch (and I say that as a fan of both the league and Harden + CP3). 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyuIEMdOi_E&feature=youtu.be&t=294 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyuIEMdOi_E&feature=youtu.be...

clairity 7y ago

it's a tricky balancing act. i just watched two of his 3-point foul draws in the game tonight (one deserved, the other not so much). a little bit of foul shopping keeps the other team's defense honest, but harden does it so much that it's frustrating. players really shouldn't be rewarded for constantly baiting opponents into fouls. fractional free throws to nullify the advantage would be odd, and not calling fouls consistently would be even more maddening, so the solution isn't straightforward. with that said, harden really is fun to watch when he's not just fishing for fouls.

m3kw9 7y ago

I’d say the best play is the 4 point play back breakers

thelock85 7y ago

The evolution of the game is based on hacking the rules. The step back 3-pointer is based on the fact that you can take two steps and glide to the rim (layup or floater) or one step sideways, then back and jump shoot (fadeaway) so why not take two steps back then jump forward (step back 3) which you have to do anyway to create enough forward momentum on your shot to avoid muscling the shot (Lebron-style step back 3) and getting tired eventually (if you're not Lebron). It's innovation at its finest, or better yet, iteration. Because anyone watching the game knows that Steph Curry made the step back 3 a game changer in today's NBA. Harden just perfected it.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]