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>"Nobody likes to give themselves credit for this kind of messaging success, but progressive groups did a really good job of convincing people that Trump raised

>"Nobody likes to give themselves credit for this kind of messaging success, but progressive groups did a really good job of convincing people that Trump raised their taxes when the facts say a clear majority got a tax cut." ~Matthew Yglesias, Senior Correspondent for Vox This tweet has since been deleted, but there are many articles citing it if you want to verify it.

CydeWeys 8y ago
Trump's tax cut disproportionately went to the very wealthy. Some data on that here: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tax-plan-consequences/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tax-plan-consequence... The richer you are, the higher the percentage your taxes went down. And that's a higher percentage on more income, too, so if you look at total dollars per income level it's much worse.
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  That's exactly what I would expect out of a progressive tax system, and what I think any reasonable person would expect. When there is a tax cut, the people who pay the majority of the taxes get the biggest benefit. In the chart you showed, the approximately half of the population that doesn't pay any federal income taxes still got a tax cut. How much of a tax cut do you expect a person to get when their tax bill is already <= $0? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-fed...
  - notabee 8y ago
    That is not what progressive taxation means, by definition. When lower income earners pay a higher proportion of their income than higher income earners, that is a regressive tax structure. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-are-differences-between-regressive-proportional-and-progressive-taxes.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-are-dif...
    - Consultant32452 8y ago
      We're talking about the federal income tax, which is the example given in that article of a progressive tax. The net result of our particular progressive income tax system is nearly half the country pays no income tax. I don't have a problem with that. I believe every reasonable voter understands that when a tax cut comes, it doesn't really benefit the people who aren't paying the tax to begin with.
      - notabee 8y ago
        If the wealthiest are de facto not paying as much tax, proportionally, as the middle or poorest classes, then federal income tax is not truly progressive. It has been increasingly regressive since the peak marginal rates back in the 1950s. This includes the use of numerous loop holes in the tax code to avoid what should otherwise be a large tax, and those primarily benefit the wealthy. The overall tax burden is what counts. For instance, some states do not have income tax for anyone, but they get much of their revenue from sales tax. Sales tax is regressive because the wealthy spend a smaller proportion of their money on sales tax than those who live paycheck to paycheck.
  - CydeWeys 8y ago
    It doesn't sound like we're disagreeing? I'm saying that the tax system needs to be more progressive to better fight income inequality, and that the tax cuts made things less progressive. And some responses to the claim that nearly half of Americans don't pay federal income tax: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/five-myths-about-the-47-percent/ https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/five-myths-about-the-47-p... The biggest one missing is that a sizable number of Americans are either retired, too young, still in school, disabled, etc., and don't earn a meaningful amount of income for these reasons. Why would you even expect everyone to pay taxes when not everyone earns income??
    - Consultant32452 8y ago
      I don't expect everyone to pay taxes. I'm not even supporting the tax cut. But when tax cuts are going around I don't expect them to primarily go to the people who aren't paying any taxes. And I think the vast majority of voters have this same expectation. So complaining that tax cuts primarily benefited only the people who pay taxes... that doesn't make sense as a complaint.

CydeWeys 8y ago

Trump's tax cut disproportionately went to the very wealthy. Some data on that here: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tax-plan-consequences/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tax-plan-consequence... The richer you are, the higher the percentage your taxes went down. And that's a higher percentage on more income, too, so if you look at total dollars per income level it's much worse.

Consultant32452 8y ago
That's exactly what I would expect out of a progressive tax system, and what I think any reasonable person would expect. When there is a tax cut, the people who pay the majority of the taxes get the biggest benefit. In the chart you showed, the approximately half of the population that doesn't pay any federal income taxes still got a tax cut. How much of a tax cut do you expect a person to get when their tax bill is already <= $0? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-fed...
- notabee 8y ago
  That is not what progressive taxation means, by definition. When lower income earners pay a higher proportion of their income than higher income earners, that is a regressive tax structure. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-are-differences-between-regressive-proportional-and-progressive-taxes.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-are-dif...
  - Consultant32452 8y ago
    We're talking about the federal income tax, which is the example given in that article of a progressive tax. The net result of our particular progressive income tax system is nearly half the country pays no income tax. I don't have a problem with that. I believe every reasonable voter understands that when a tax cut comes, it doesn't really benefit the people who aren't paying the tax to begin with.
    - notabee 8y ago
      If the wealthiest are de facto not paying as much tax, proportionally, as the middle or poorest classes, then federal income tax is not truly progressive. It has been increasingly regressive since the peak marginal rates back in the 1950s. This includes the use of numerous loop holes in the tax code to avoid what should otherwise be a large tax, and those primarily benefit the wealthy. The overall tax burden is what counts. For instance, some states do not have income tax for anyone, but they get much of their revenue from sales tax. Sales tax is regressive because the wealthy spend a smaller proportion of their money on sales tax than those who live paycheck to paycheck.
- CydeWeys 8y ago
  It doesn't sound like we're disagreeing? I'm saying that the tax system needs to be more progressive to better fight income inequality, and that the tax cuts made things less progressive. And some responses to the claim that nearly half of Americans don't pay federal income tax: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/five-myths-about-the-47-percent/ https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/five-myths-about-the-47-p... The biggest one missing is that a sizable number of Americans are either retired, too young, still in school, disabled, etc., and don't earn a meaningful amount of income for these reasons. Why would you even expect everyone to pay taxes when not everyone earns income??
  - Consultant32452 8y ago
    I don't expect everyone to pay taxes. I'm not even supporting the tax cut. But when tax cuts are going around I don't expect them to primarily go to the people who aren't paying any taxes. And I think the vast majority of voters have this same expectation. So complaining that tax cuts primarily benefited only the people who pay taxes... that doesn't make sense as a complaint.