4 ms·

So now it’s about 10% as good as Taobao

briandon 7y ago
Taobao is ecommerce with Chinese characteristics (i.e. clown-world style) and I say this as someone who has been using Taobao multiple times a week for years. There's having to get on AliWangWang and chat up sellers to make sure they actually have stock of the items they're listing for sale. If you optimistically order without spending ten minutes going back and forth with them beforehand, your purchases may not ship because one of the items is out of stock or no longer available in that size/color (despite it being listed w/claimed inventory of 9898998 pieces in stock) and when you do get on WangWang, you've got to waste more time haggling over individual item cancellations, substitutions, etc. And even if everything you want is in stock, you're lucky enough to be ordering when the seller isn't away from their phone/computer because they're asleep/eating/whatever and so is available to confirm this, they're as likely as not to wait until a bit later to confirm your shipping address. If you're not on WangWang to respond to the shipping address confirmation query, then your order sits around unshipped until you do (and until they read your confirmation). When you do receive your purchases, you can expect them to be cellophane-envelope wrapped or rolled up in clingfilm, which is usually sheathed in a layer of Mainland grit and grime (hence the cellophane/clingfilm) and this in turn is often packed in crumpled Chinese newspapers or scores of the foam webbing collars one sees used around individual apples, pears, etc. in supermarkets here. If you live in China or HK/Macao, then you'll probably use Taobao much more than Amazon, but only because of the shipping costs. Actually enjoying using Taobao after having used Amazon, though, would require a strong masochistic streak.
- briandon 7y ago
  HN doesn't allow inline images, so I've tweeted a combo screencap of a recent example of a sellers messaging to confirm my shipping address (no response from me and that order would not move) and an example of a seller waiting two days to tell me that the stuff I'd bought wasn't in stock and telling me to apply for a refund: https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032 https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032
- thetechlead 7y ago
  Don't lie about your experience living in China. There is already too much China-related misinformation on HN. For 99% of the time, you go straight to click-n-buy which should get your order delivered on time, and for the 1% you prefer to talk to the seller the option is a blessing, not a curse. I used to work for Alibaba.
  - briandon 7y ago
    Here are two recent examples of my having to interact w/sellers on WangWang. Top half of screencap: have to confirm address or they won't ship. Bottom half of screencap: other seller waits two days to tell me that the stuff I bought was out of stock and I should apply for a refund (the items are still for sale on that shop btw). https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032 https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032
  - briandon 7y ago
    Speaking truths that you find objectionable is not lying. If you haven't encountered these issues, then I'm happy for you. For my wife and I, phantom inventory is a regular problem. Usually, we can catch the problem over WangWang, but it's not unusual for us to place the order and, just before paying, give the order number to the seller and have them confirm they've got it before paying, then pay and a few days later when the order hasn't shipped, message them again and get an apology and a sad story about one of the items being out of stock or only available in a different version. Shopping on Amazon is like buying in Target and shopping on Taobao or Tmall (a slightly better experience w/re to seller flakiness) is akin to buying from a shabby flea market. If the nearest Target is a few hours' drive away and the flea market is ten minutes' drive from your house, you'll shop at the flea market but it's not really an enjoyable experience.
- atr_gz 7y ago
  I use Taobao weekly as well. It's not nearly as bad as you're saying. I've never run into any of those issues. That said, the shipping times definitely aren't as consistent as Amazon (although I've only used Amazon in Seattle). I'm not in a Tier 1, but I am in a provincial capital. I'd estimate about 50% of my orders take 3 days, 30% take 2 days, 10% take 1 day, and 10% greater than 3 days. With Amazon it was like 80% 2 days, 20% 1 day, and hardly ever more than 2 days using prime. This isn't a totally fair comparison, I guess. I don't pay a yearly fee to Taobao and I rarely get express shipping, I just use the default. But really Taobao is fine. It's not as amazing as some people on here say, but it's not crap either.
  - briandon 7y ago
    I am not complaining about delivery times (i.e. the time from logistics service pickup to delivery). I know that China is a developing country and logistics operations in China have a ways to go. Once an order gets moving, it will arrive in a few days. What's aggravating are the delays in shipping (the time that passes after you pay and before the seller hands off the order to a logistics service provider) and the excuse-making. Usually, after a couple of days have passed (depending on that seller's "ships within [time]" promise), and I get on WangWang and ask them what's holding things up, it's due to nonexistent inventory. China's many long festivals and holidays can be an issue because enough people stop working earlier pre-holiday and resume working later post-holiday than promised to cause delays. Buying stuff, having to hop onto WangWang to tell the sellers that, yes, the address they got from Taobao is the address they're to ship to and then having to keep an eye on it and periodically load AliWangWang to see if a seller has sent me some emoji-laden sob story to explain lack of inventory, and then deal with that. It's not fun. On Amazon, we buy, pay through the nose for shipping, and then don't have to give the order a second thought. Amazon for us just works, painlessly.
    - atr_gz 7y ago
      Yeah, weird that you have so many problems. I've never experienced any of that. Those delivery times I gave above are from the time I ordered the product. I've never spoken with any seller.
- est 7y ago
  I think you are describing Ali-express or 1688.com, not the actual Taobao. And don't buy items from Taobao with zero sales per month.
  - briandon 7y ago
    Nope, we've never used Ali-express or 1688.com. I'm talking about Taobao. We also often purchase from Tmall, but Tmall sellers are usually better organized or less shady. Sales numbers and reviews aren't 100% trustworthy. If someone buys X but X is out of stock and the buyer asks the seller to send some Y of roughly equivalent value instead, Taobao won't show the next buyer any new sales of Y but will show the (nonexistent) sale of X. And if you leave unfavorable reviews, sellers will wheedle you endlessly on WangWang, begging you to get rid of the negative feedback and offering partial refunds or free stuff in a future order.
    - est 7y ago
      I never having out of stock trouble buying established brands from Tmall or Taobao. Maybe you are buying something different.
- llaappqq 7y ago
  Just as a few others have mentioned, I too never have such problems using Taobao. The way I use it is with the app, click to sort by number of sales, and usually buy from one of the top sellers. I don't usually talk to the sellers unless I have questions about the stuff I'm about to buy, and I turn off the notification for the app so 80% of the time I just never reply the seller. They might still send the message asking me to confirm the address, but they'll still send the package even if I don't reply. As for the delivery time it depends on where you live and where the seller is in. When I lived in Shanghai most of the packages arrive in at most 2 days as I usually choose the sellers from Zhejiang, Jiangsu or Shanghai
  - briandon 7y ago
    I believe you and I'm glad that you have such a smooth experience on Taobao. I wish that it were as hassle-free for me, my wife, her coworkers, and pretty much anyone I've met who has used Taobao. Here are two recent examples of my having to interact w/sellers on WangWang. Top half of screencap: have to confirm address or they won't ship. Bottom half of screencap: other seller waits two days to tell me that the stuff I bought was out of stock and I should apply for a refund (the items are still for sale on that shop btw). https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032 https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032
tanilama 7y ago
It is somewhat ignorant not to see China and US has very different transportation system and population density. Building logitistics in US is a totally different story from of China. Put Alibaba in US, they will fail like Amazon did in China.

Taobao is ecommerce with Chinese characteristics (i.e. clown-world style) and I say this as someone who has been using Taobao multiple times a week for years. There's having to get on AliWangWang and chat up sellers to make sure they actually have stock of the items they're listing for sale. If you optimistically order without spending ten minutes going back and forth with them beforehand, your purchases may not ship because one of the items is out of stock or no longer available in that size/color (despite it being listed w/claimed inventory of 9898998 pieces in stock) and when you do get on WangWang, you've got to waste more time haggling over individual item cancellations, substitutions, etc. And even if everything you want is in stock, you're lucky enough to be ordering when the seller isn't away from their phone/computer because they're asleep/eating/whatever and so is available to confirm this, they're as likely as not to wait until a bit later to confirm your shipping address. If you're not on WangWang to respond to the shipping address confirmation query, then your order sits around unshipped until you do (and until they read your confirmation). When you do receive your purchases, you can expect them to be cellophane-envelope wrapped or rolled up in clingfilm, which is usually sheathed in a layer of Mainland grit and grime (hence the cellophane/clingfilm) and this in turn is often packed in crumpled Chinese newspapers or scores of the foam webbing collars one sees used around individual apples, pears, etc. in supermarkets here. If you live in China or HK/Macao, then you'll probably use Taobao much more than Amazon, but only because of the shipping costs. Actually enjoying using Taobao after having used Amazon, though, would require a strong masochistic streak.

briandon 7y ago
HN doesn't allow inline images, so I've tweeted a combo screencap of a recent example of a sellers messaging to confirm my shipping address (no response from me and that order would not move) and an example of a seller waiting two days to tell me that the stuff I'd bought wasn't in stock and telling me to apply for a refund: https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032 https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032
thetechlead 7y ago
Don't lie about your experience living in China. There is already too much China-related misinformation on HN. For 99% of the time, you go straight to click-n-buy which should get your order delivered on time, and for the 1% you prefer to talk to the seller the option is a blessing, not a curse. I used to work for Alibaba.
- briandon 7y ago
  Here are two recent examples of my having to interact w/sellers on WangWang. Top half of screencap: have to confirm address or they won't ship. Bottom half of screencap: other seller waits two days to tell me that the stuff I bought was out of stock and I should apply for a refund (the items are still for sale on that shop btw). https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032 https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032
- briandon 7y ago
  Speaking truths that you find objectionable is not lying. If you haven't encountered these issues, then I'm happy for you. For my wife and I, phantom inventory is a regular problem. Usually, we can catch the problem over WangWang, but it's not unusual for us to place the order and, just before paying, give the order number to the seller and have them confirm they've got it before paying, then pay and a few days later when the order hasn't shipped, message them again and get an apology and a sad story about one of the items being out of stock or only available in a different version. Shopping on Amazon is like buying in Target and shopping on Taobao or Tmall (a slightly better experience w/re to seller flakiness) is akin to buying from a shabby flea market. If the nearest Target is a few hours' drive away and the flea market is ten minutes' drive from your house, you'll shop at the flea market but it's not really an enjoyable experience.
atr_gz 7y ago
I use Taobao weekly as well. It's not nearly as bad as you're saying. I've never run into any of those issues. That said, the shipping times definitely aren't as consistent as Amazon (although I've only used Amazon in Seattle). I'm not in a Tier 1, but I am in a provincial capital. I'd estimate about 50% of my orders take 3 days, 30% take 2 days, 10% take 1 day, and 10% greater than 3 days. With Amazon it was like 80% 2 days, 20% 1 day, and hardly ever more than 2 days using prime. This isn't a totally fair comparison, I guess. I don't pay a yearly fee to Taobao and I rarely get express shipping, I just use the default. But really Taobao is fine. It's not as amazing as some people on here say, but it's not crap either.
- briandon 7y ago
  I am not complaining about delivery times (i.e. the time from logistics service pickup to delivery). I know that China is a developing country and logistics operations in China have a ways to go. Once an order gets moving, it will arrive in a few days. What's aggravating are the delays in shipping (the time that passes after you pay and before the seller hands off the order to a logistics service provider) and the excuse-making. Usually, after a couple of days have passed (depending on that seller's "ships within [time]" promise), and I get on WangWang and ask them what's holding things up, it's due to nonexistent inventory. China's many long festivals and holidays can be an issue because enough people stop working earlier pre-holiday and resume working later post-holiday than promised to cause delays. Buying stuff, having to hop onto WangWang to tell the sellers that, yes, the address they got from Taobao is the address they're to ship to and then having to keep an eye on it and periodically load AliWangWang to see if a seller has sent me some emoji-laden sob story to explain lack of inventory, and then deal with that. It's not fun. On Amazon, we buy, pay through the nose for shipping, and then don't have to give the order a second thought. Amazon for us just works, painlessly.
  - atr_gz 7y ago
    Yeah, weird that you have so many problems. I've never experienced any of that. Those delivery times I gave above are from the time I ordered the product. I've never spoken with any seller.
est 7y ago
I think you are describing Ali-express or 1688.com, not the actual Taobao. And don't buy items from Taobao with zero sales per month.
- briandon 7y ago
  Nope, we've never used Ali-express or 1688.com. I'm talking about Taobao. We also often purchase from Tmall, but Tmall sellers are usually better organized or less shady. Sales numbers and reviews aren't 100% trustworthy. If someone buys X but X is out of stock and the buyer asks the seller to send some Y of roughly equivalent value instead, Taobao won't show the next buyer any new sales of Y but will show the (nonexistent) sale of X. And if you leave unfavorable reviews, sellers will wheedle you endlessly on WangWang, begging you to get rid of the negative feedback and offering partial refunds or free stuff in a future order.
  - est 7y ago
    I never having out of stock trouble buying established brands from Tmall or Taobao. Maybe you are buying something different.
llaappqq 7y ago
Just as a few others have mentioned, I too never have such problems using Taobao. The way I use it is with the app, click to sort by number of sales, and usually buy from one of the top sellers. I don't usually talk to the sellers unless I have questions about the stuff I'm about to buy, and I turn off the notification for the app so 80% of the time I just never reply the seller. They might still send the message asking me to confirm the address, but they'll still send the package even if I don't reply. As for the delivery time it depends on where you live and where the seller is in. When I lived in Shanghai most of the packages arrive in at most 2 days as I usually choose the sellers from Zhejiang, Jiangsu or Shanghai
- briandon 7y ago
  I believe you and I'm glad that you have such a smooth experience on Taobao. I wish that it were as hassle-free for me, my wife, her coworkers, and pretty much anyone I've met who has used Taobao. Here are two recent examples of my having to interact w/sellers on WangWang. Top half of screencap: have to confirm address or they won't ship. Bottom half of screencap: other seller waits two days to tell me that the stuff I bought was out of stock and I should apply for a refund (the items are still for sale on that shop btw). https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032 https://twitter.com/briandonovan/status/1125353433110700032

tanilama 7y ago

It is somewhat ignorant not to see China and US has very different transportation system and population density. Building logitistics in US is a totally different story from of China. Put Alibaba in US, they will fail like Amazon did in China.