7 ms·

This doesn't reflect my experience at all. I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times in the last four years. I've never had

This doesn't reflect my experience at all. I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times in the last four years. I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes on the phone or at the counter. I have had a couple emails get lost, but after a bump or two I got the answers I needed. Appointments do book out a few weeks, but scheduling is pretty easy (especially now that it's all online). The one time something urgent came up with my car, they took me without an appointment, and even put me in a rental car since they were out of loaners. I've never had service anywhere near that good when I had a Toyota or a Subaru.

semi-extrinsic 7y ago
Why has your brand-new car had to go in for service ~12 times in 4 years? Isn't that exactly the issue being discussed? I drive a 15-year-old station wagon, and I'm averaging around half that.
- DKnoll 7y ago
  If you've brought your car in for service only 6 times in 4 years you're either doing some service yourself or falling behind on your maintenance schedule. In 4 years you should be changing your oil alone at least 8 times, 16 if you use conventional instead of synthetic.
  - semi-extrinsic 7y ago
    Either you have a car with an engine that was engineered in the 1970s, or you're getting seriously ripped off. If you look at what the people who sell motor oil recommend, it's 7500 to 10000 miles between oil changes. E.g. here: http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthetic-oil-change-interval.html http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthe... Some manufacturers are specifying 25k - 30k km these days And I do in fact change engine oil myself. Undo one bolt to drain, take off the filter and install a new one, refill oil. Takes 30 minutes including some time for having a beer while you wait for the last bit to drain. It's almost as easy as changing out your windshield wipers and refilling washer fluid. My point is, it makes zero sense to include basic stuff like this in a discussion on reliability.
    - DKnoll 7y ago
      Most people take their car in to a service centre for even basic maintenance, which is why I mentioned it. Obviously a Tesla doesn't have engine oil, but it has other wear items. Since you do some basic maintenance yourself this easily explains why you take your vehicle in for service less. I refer to the maintenance schedule of the vehicle manufacturer, which specifies an interval much less than 30k km in most cases. I replace synthetic oil every 8k km. I was referring to the time interval in my previous comment which is max 6 months for synthetic. I am aware changing oil is easy. I do it myself during the summer months (I don't have a garage). My vehicle is from 2011 also.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        You're changing your oil way too frequently, unless you have a luxury car, in which case your vehicle's maintenance schedule is non-standard anyways and not really relevant to the discussion at hand.
        DKnoll 7y ago
        I drive a Ford sedan from 2011.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        As do I...You shouldn't be replacing your oil multiple times a year. Unless you drive a lot (i.e., 10k+ miles a year, meaning >27 miles/day every day of the year or >40 miles every work day of the year), you should be able to go 2-3 years between oil changes.
        DKnoll 7y ago
        I do drive a fair bit, easily over 10k miles in a year. Changing oil frequently may sound like a ripoff but doing it on time helps you avoid more expensive service down the road. I've seen enough pictures of engines full of sludge because the owner thought he didn't have to change it. Beyond being preventative maintenance, it also improves fuel economy. Keep in mind that most people recommend changing synthetic oil every 6 months, even Edmunds.com which you mentioned earlier (ctrl+F '6 months', https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths...)
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    If you've brought your car in for service only 6 times in 4 years you're either doing some service yourself or falling behind on your maintenance schedule. In 4 years you should be changing your oil alone at least 8 times, 16 if you use conventional instead of synthetic. Maybe if you own a Tesla or a luxury car, you're falling behind on that schedule. But nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil. (See https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-your-oil.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-y...)
    - DKnoll 7y ago
      > nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil. Simply not true, and the linked article doesn't support that statement either. Try looking at a maintenance schedule for a Corolla or a Camry here: https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/my-toyota/maintenance-schedule https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/my-toyota/maintenance-schedu....
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        My link supports the claim that oil changes are too frequent and should be roughly every 7500+ miles, or 15k+ for newer cars, which is about 1x/year for most drivers. The Recommended is a very different thing from required. The recommended maintenance schedules calls for servicing before any meaningful wear and tear on maintained parts/systems. Essentially, you're always getting them cleaned or replaced so their close to new. This is great for optimum performance but it's also incredibly wasteful and unnecessary. It's the equivalent of replacing your RAM and video card every year. Sure, you're always getting top-of-the-line performance, but if you're just playing the sims and using MS Word, why are you wasting the money?
        DKnoll 7y ago
        Because your RAM or video card failing (hard to stretch this metaphor lol) won't take your motherboard with it. Sludge buildup in an engine is easily prevented with frequent oil changes and will help you keep your car on the road without expensive repairs. Beyond driving cautiously, changing your oil on time is probably the best thing you can do to extend the lifetime of your vehicle. As for waste, oil can be recycled but burnt off fuel can't be. You consume less fuel if your engine is properly lubricated.
- freerobby 7y ago
  8 seasonal tire swaps, a couple issues with the door handles, and a couple recalls.

semi-extrinsic 7y ago

Why has your brand-new car had to go in for service ~12 times in 4 years? Isn't that exactly the issue being discussed? I drive a 15-year-old station wagon, and I'm averaging around half that.

DKnoll 7y ago
If you've brought your car in for service only 6 times in 4 years you're either doing some service yourself or falling behind on your maintenance schedule. In 4 years you should be changing your oil alone at least 8 times, 16 if you use conventional instead of synthetic.
- semi-extrinsic 7y ago
  Either you have a car with an engine that was engineered in the 1970s, or you're getting seriously ripped off. If you look at what the people who sell motor oil recommend, it's 7500 to 10000 miles between oil changes. E.g. here: http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthetic-oil-change-interval.html http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthe... Some manufacturers are specifying 25k - 30k km these days And I do in fact change engine oil myself. Undo one bolt to drain, take off the filter and install a new one, refill oil. Takes 30 minutes including some time for having a beer while you wait for the last bit to drain. It's almost as easy as changing out your windshield wipers and refilling washer fluid. My point is, it makes zero sense to include basic stuff like this in a discussion on reliability.
  - DKnoll 7y ago
    Most people take their car in to a service centre for even basic maintenance, which is why I mentioned it. Obviously a Tesla doesn't have engine oil, but it has other wear items. Since you do some basic maintenance yourself this easily explains why you take your vehicle in for service less. I refer to the maintenance schedule of the vehicle manufacturer, which specifies an interval much less than 30k km in most cases. I replace synthetic oil every 8k km. I was referring to the time interval in my previous comment which is max 6 months for synthetic. I am aware changing oil is easy. I do it myself during the summer months (I don't have a garage). My vehicle is from 2011 also.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      You're changing your oil way too frequently, unless you have a luxury car, in which case your vehicle's maintenance schedule is non-standard anyways and not really relevant to the discussion at hand.
      - DKnoll 7y ago
        I drive a Ford sedan from 2011.
        gamblor956 7y ago
        As do I...You shouldn't be replacing your oil multiple times a year. Unless you drive a lot (i.e., 10k+ miles a year, meaning >27 miles/day every day of the year or >40 miles every work day of the year), you should be able to go 2-3 years between oil changes.
        DKnoll 7y ago
        I do drive a fair bit, easily over 10k miles in a year. Changing oil frequently may sound like a ripoff but doing it on time helps you avoid more expensive service down the road. I've seen enough pictures of engines full of sludge because the owner thought he didn't have to change it. Beyond being preventative maintenance, it also improves fuel economy. Keep in mind that most people recommend changing synthetic oil every 6 months, even Edmunds.com which you mentioned earlier (ctrl+F '6 months', https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths...)
- gamblor956 7y ago
  If you've brought your car in for service only 6 times in 4 years you're either doing some service yourself or falling behind on your maintenance schedule. In 4 years you should be changing your oil alone at least 8 times, 16 if you use conventional instead of synthetic. Maybe if you own a Tesla or a luxury car, you're falling behind on that schedule. But nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil. (See https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-your-oil.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-y...)
  - DKnoll 7y ago
    > nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil. Simply not true, and the linked article doesn't support that statement either. Try looking at a maintenance schedule for a Corolla or a Camry here: https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/my-toyota/maintenance-schedule https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/my-toyota/maintenance-schedu....
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      My link supports the claim that oil changes are too frequent and should be roughly every 7500+ miles, or 15k+ for newer cars, which is about 1x/year for most drivers. The Recommended is a very different thing from required. The recommended maintenance schedules calls for servicing before any meaningful wear and tear on maintained parts/systems. Essentially, you're always getting them cleaned or replaced so their close to new. This is great for optimum performance but it's also incredibly wasteful and unnecessary. It's the equivalent of replacing your RAM and video card every year. Sure, you're always getting top-of-the-line performance, but if you're just playing the sims and using MS Word, why are you wasting the money?
      - DKnoll 7y ago
        Because your RAM or video card failing (hard to stretch this metaphor lol) won't take your motherboard with it. Sludge buildup in an engine is easily prevented with frequent oil changes and will help you keep your car on the road without expensive repairs. Beyond driving cautiously, changing your oil on time is probably the best thing you can do to extend the lifetime of your vehicle. As for waste, oil can be recycled but burnt off fuel can't be. You consume less fuel if your engine is properly lubricated.
freerobby 7y ago
8 seasonal tire swaps, a couple issues with the door handles, and a couple recalls.