4 ms·

Woah, don't put words in my mouth like that! I never said I thought that. That said, I'm not sure I understand your question. Wikileaks and Anon aren't related.

by cryptoz 16y ago

Woah, don't put words in my mouth like that! I never said I thought that. That said, I'm not sure I understand your question. Wikileaks and Anon aren't related. MC can't choose to deal or not deal with Anon. Their choice is about Wikileaks, who have nothing to do with any of this. If they continue to choose to ban payments through their system to Wikileaks, I assume they'll continue losing money from DDoSs. shrug I don't have any idea what'll happen, but I think you have to accept that Anon has a point, even if you don't agree with them. MC slows the flow of information. Anon slows the flow of cash to MC. If MC doesn't respond, it seems like they'll keep losing money.

asr 16y ago
While I understand the logic of your point, I think the assumption you make is that MasterCard will add in the costs of a possible DDos attack when considering whether they made the right business decision. And I think the answer is no, although it's arguable. There is surely a point at which MC will try to do the "right" thing instead of the profitable thing, and it's easy to see how that point is between cutting off Wikileaks (which arguably is harming US national interests) and changing business strategy to appease hackers.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  I think you missed his point again. He's not speculating as to what MC will optimize. He's just stating point of fact, as we understand it today. If you do A then B will happen. Given that its unclear to me that what Wikileaks even did is illegal (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/world/02legal.html?_r=1 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/world/02legal.html?_r=1) I have little sympathy for MC. It just feels like they're a bully in this situation. It does suck for their customers though. Maybe more customers will drop MC due to their inefficiency? Who knows.
  - eli 16y ago
    How is it being a bully to deny service to a customer who may or may not be committing a crime? There is no inalienable right to have a credit card merchant account.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      That's why we call it 'being a bully' and not 'committing a crime.'
eli 16y ago
Seems like the lesson to me would be, never offer service to any controversial organizations in the first place lest the Internet mob punish you for withdrawing that service later. If I worked for any sort of internet payment gateway, I'd certainly make sure to never take on Wikileaks as a client.

by cryptoz 16y ago

asr 16y ago

While I understand the logic of your point, I think the assumption you make is that MasterCard will add in the costs of a possible DDos attack when considering whether they made the right business decision. And I think the answer is no, although it's arguable. There is surely a point at which MC will try to do the "right" thing instead of the profitable thing, and it's easy to see how that point is between cutting off Wikileaks (which arguably is harming US national interests) and changing business strategy to appease hackers.

kenjackson 16y ago
I think you missed his point again. He's not speculating as to what MC will optimize. He's just stating point of fact, as we understand it today. If you do A then B will happen. Given that its unclear to me that what Wikileaks even did is illegal (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/world/02legal.html?_r=1 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/world/02legal.html?_r=1) I have little sympathy for MC. It just feels like they're a bully in this situation. It does suck for their customers though. Maybe more customers will drop MC due to their inefficiency? Who knows.
- eli 16y ago
  How is it being a bully to deny service to a customer who may or may not be committing a crime? There is no inalienable right to have a credit card merchant account.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    That's why we call it 'being a bully' and not 'committing a crime.'

eli 16y ago

Seems like the lesson to me would be, never offer service to any controversial organizations in the first place lest the Internet mob punish you for withdrawing that service later. If I worked for any sort of internet payment gateway, I'd certainly make sure to never take on Wikileaks as a client.