4 ms·

You're kidding, right? This is some kind of belated, unfunny April Fools joke, right? This is a specialty IoT device for "blockchain", something whose only har

You're kidding, right? This is some kind of belated, unfunny April Fools joke, right? This is a specialty IoT device for "blockchain", something whose only hardware requirements is some kind of on-board crypto device... and it doesn't even have one. "Elk doesn't have any form of hardware security and shouldn't at any point in time be used to hold significant amounts of (real) crypto assets." Kickstarter should remove the project for being a scam.

woah 7y ago
It’s a “scam” now to sell hardware bundled with special purpose software? This post is almost a parody of the shrill anti blockchain rants on HN. And your damning criticism of this device is that it doesn’t contain a hardware security module and shouldn’t be used to secure millions of dollars? You’re tearing someone down for trying to support their open source software by selling hardware with it pre-flashed.
- geezerjay 7y ago
  > And your damning criticism of this device is that it doesn’t contain a hardware security module and shouldn’t be used to secure millions of dollars? From a bird's eye view, objectively the project appears to be marketing a generic low-powered SoC which at best runs some blockchain software. And the "millions of dollars" was your claim, so if you want to criticise someone for making it then the only one you have to criticise is yourself. > You’re tearing someone down for trying to support their open source software by selling hardware with it pre-flashed. It's actually the other way around. Someone is trying to sell uninteresting hardware at a premium by making unbelievablr hyperbolical claims about its capabilities, which sounds quite honestly like a blatant scam.
  - woah 7y ago
    There's nothing hyperbolic about the claims- all of it is easily possible with some software on the device. They are very open about this, and the software is open source. You begrudge them trying to make a living by selling hardware with the software conveniently pre-flashed.
  - imake 7y ago
    Hi this is imake from the Elk team. I'm happy to discuss any claims you feel are unbelievable. To reiterate what I mentioned in an earlier comment, our true value is in the full experience of developing blockchain applications for embedded devices, which we strongly believe is 10x better than solutions that exist today. We didn't share details on hardware specs, and part of the reason we haven't done so yet is because we don't want to frame the conversation into specs - we won't necessarily beat other boards in the market when it comes to specs, and it's not our intention to do so. Our intention is to make a plug-and-play Arduino-like device for embedded blockchain development. We want to an experience where you won't have to fuss over setting up a node, tuning its parameters to run well on a low embedded device, handle crashes, etc. That's part of the reason why we chose to build our own hardware, it's because nothing existed that would allow us to give the developer experience we have in mind: breadboard compatible, 3.3v and 5v tolerant, integrated emmc preloaded with our OS, plug-and-play as a regular micro controller board not a single board computer, an RGB LED for indicating status, and no irrelevant and unneeded ports (HDMI, Audio, Ethernet, camera, etc). We'll be adding more details and shedding more light into our development experience in upcoming blog posts. Please subscribe at https://elk.cc https://elk.cc to learn more. Happy to address any other concerns you might have.
tyingq 7y ago
At least they aren't lying about it. They seem clear there's no hw crypto, and that whatever value is there is in the software. The pictured chip is an Octavo AM335X, so it should be somewhat similar to a Beaglebone, run Linux, etc. Assuming it's not priced a lot higher than a BB, it may not be a scam.
- alcrastaz 7y ago
  i used to work on a similar board 5 years ago called ESP8266. So not sure whats new here.
  - tyingq 7y ago
    An ESP8266 is not similar to an AM335x. AM335X is a 1GHz ARM Cortex-A8. Microcontroller versus Microprocessor.
    - exoesquitur 7y ago
      Yeah, so much more powerful..... And sooooooo much more challenging to secure. At least with microcontrollers, you (can) lock down execution of arbitrary code almost entirely, because Harvard architecture.
imake 7y ago
Hi this is imake from the Elk team. Our original plan was to actually have hardware security built-in, but we decided to drop it given that it would substantially increase the cost of development. Given the nascent nature of blockchain protocols currently, we felt we would put our resources to better use by focusing on the development experience, which is what we think is quite lacking in the blockchain space today. We believe current blockchain development is subpar, let alone blockchain development for embedded devices. There's room to make a 10x improvement in its UX, and that's what we're set out to do with this product. With Elk, you won't have to fuss over setting up a node, tuning its parameters to run well on a low embedded device, handle crashes, etc. We are delivering the Arduino-like experience to blockchain development, with all the libraries that Arduino already supports. Our true value is in our software and in our ease-of-use. The development experience we want to offer is a board that is plug-and-play just like an Arduino, offers over-the-air upgrades, and offers tools for seamlessly controlling your device from your phone through decentralized technologies. As for why we chose to build our own hardware, it's because nothing exists that would allow us to give the developer experience we have in mind: breadboard compatible, 3.3v and 5v tolerant, integrated emmc preloaded with our OS, plug-and-play as a regular micro controller board not a single board computer, an RGB LED for indicating status, and no irrelevant and unneeded ports (HDMI, Audio, Ethernet, camera, etc). We'll be adding more details and shedding more light into our development experience in upcoming blog posts. Please subscribe at https://elk.cc https://elk.cc to learn more. Happy to address any other concerns you might have.

woah 7y ago

It’s a “scam” now to sell hardware bundled with special purpose software? This post is almost a parody of the shrill anti blockchain rants on HN. And your damning criticism of this device is that it doesn’t contain a hardware security module and shouldn’t be used to secure millions of dollars? You’re tearing someone down for trying to support their open source software by selling hardware with it pre-flashed.

geezerjay 7y ago
> And your damning criticism of this device is that it doesn’t contain a hardware security module and shouldn’t be used to secure millions of dollars? From a bird's eye view, objectively the project appears to be marketing a generic low-powered SoC which at best runs some blockchain software. And the "millions of dollars" was your claim, so if you want to criticise someone for making it then the only one you have to criticise is yourself. > You’re tearing someone down for trying to support their open source software by selling hardware with it pre-flashed. It's actually the other way around. Someone is trying to sell uninteresting hardware at a premium by making unbelievablr hyperbolical claims about its capabilities, which sounds quite honestly like a blatant scam.
- woah 7y ago
  There's nothing hyperbolic about the claims- all of it is easily possible with some software on the device. They are very open about this, and the software is open source. You begrudge them trying to make a living by selling hardware with the software conveniently pre-flashed.
- imake 7y ago
  Hi this is imake from the Elk team. I'm happy to discuss any claims you feel are unbelievable. To reiterate what I mentioned in an earlier comment, our true value is in the full experience of developing blockchain applications for embedded devices, which we strongly believe is 10x better than solutions that exist today. We didn't share details on hardware specs, and part of the reason we haven't done so yet is because we don't want to frame the conversation into specs - we won't necessarily beat other boards in the market when it comes to specs, and it's not our intention to do so. Our intention is to make a plug-and-play Arduino-like device for embedded blockchain development. We want to an experience where you won't have to fuss over setting up a node, tuning its parameters to run well on a low embedded device, handle crashes, etc. That's part of the reason why we chose to build our own hardware, it's because nothing existed that would allow us to give the developer experience we have in mind: breadboard compatible, 3.3v and 5v tolerant, integrated emmc preloaded with our OS, plug-and-play as a regular micro controller board not a single board computer, an RGB LED for indicating status, and no irrelevant and unneeded ports (HDMI, Audio, Ethernet, camera, etc). We'll be adding more details and shedding more light into our development experience in upcoming blog posts. Please subscribe at https://elk.cc https://elk.cc to learn more. Happy to address any other concerns you might have.

tyingq 7y ago

At least they aren't lying about it. They seem clear there's no hw crypto, and that whatever value is there is in the software. The pictured chip is an Octavo AM335X, so it should be somewhat similar to a Beaglebone, run Linux, etc. Assuming it's not priced a lot higher than a BB, it may not be a scam.

alcrastaz 7y ago
i used to work on a similar board 5 years ago called ESP8266. So not sure whats new here.
- tyingq 7y ago
  An ESP8266 is not similar to an AM335x. AM335X is a 1GHz ARM Cortex-A8. Microcontroller versus Microprocessor.
  - exoesquitur 7y ago
    Yeah, so much more powerful..... And sooooooo much more challenging to secure. At least with microcontrollers, you (can) lock down execution of arbitrary code almost entirely, because Harvard architecture.

imake 7y ago

Hi this is imake from the Elk team. Our original plan was to actually have hardware security built-in, but we decided to drop it given that it would substantially increase the cost of development. Given the nascent nature of blockchain protocols currently, we felt we would put our resources to better use by focusing on the development experience, which is what we think is quite lacking in the blockchain space today. We believe current blockchain development is subpar, let alone blockchain development for embedded devices. There's room to make a 10x improvement in its UX, and that's what we're set out to do with this product. With Elk, you won't have to fuss over setting up a node, tuning its parameters to run well on a low embedded device, handle crashes, etc. We are delivering the Arduino-like experience to blockchain development, with all the libraries that Arduino already supports. Our true value is in our software and in our ease-of-use. The development experience we want to offer is a board that is plug-and-play just like an Arduino, offers over-the-air upgrades, and offers tools for seamlessly controlling your device from your phone through decentralized technologies. As for why we chose to build our own hardware, it's because nothing exists that would allow us to give the developer experience we have in mind: breadboard compatible, 3.3v and 5v tolerant, integrated emmc preloaded with our OS, plug-and-play as a regular micro controller board not a single board computer, an RGB LED for indicating status, and no irrelevant and unneeded ports (HDMI, Audio, Ethernet, camera, etc). We'll be adding more details and shedding more light into our development experience in upcoming blog posts. Please subscribe at https://elk.cc https://elk.cc to learn more. Happy to address any other concerns you might have.