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> It's a world where a 10-20% can afford the "whatever" (e.g. best phone, live in NY/Bay area, university degree not so sure about that line. Many of the what

> It's a world where a 10-20% can afford the "whatever" (e.g. best phone, live in NY/Bay area, university degree not so sure about that line. Many of the whatevs are scraping by. https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-year-high-income-earners-struggling/ https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-yea...

throwawayjava 8y ago
Nearly every line of that budget screams "luxury", with the exception of two things: 1. The skyrocketing cost of college really does create enormous problems. I'm assuming the family profiled are either doctors or lawyers, because otherwise those $32K/yr payments would only last for a few years at most. (I paid $40K/yr in loans for both my wife and I when I got my first real job, but that happened exactly once... and we weren't buying BMWs or Land Rovers while we were doing it.) 2. Pensions, which have largely eroded away in the private sector, were enormously valuable. The switch from pensions to 401(K)s without a significant corresponding increase in pay is one of the most significant ways in which the real value of take-home pay has declined in the past 30 years. But everything else could be cut in half, probably without even noticing: 1. $42K/yr on childcare is au pair/"elite" preschool money. 2. $5,000/mo mortgage is pretty high, even for a family of four in a high CoL area. 3. Three vacations a year @ $6,000 a pop. I take more than three vacations a year, but most of them are closer to $500 for a family of 4 (camping/backpacking). The expensive ones never get higher than $3,000. There's "getting away from work for a while" and then there's "flying a family of 4 to Paris a few times a year". The former is not a "luxury" especially for a high stress job, but the latter definitely is. 4. Luxury cars. For $10K they could buy a perfectly functional new car (which would last 10 years) every year. The only way that these are not "luxuries" is if they're required for work. 5. $3K on clothing per year, every year. That's high even for someone who has to dress nicely for work. Yes, nice suits are expensive, but they also last a long time. And your kids definitely don't need "meetings with high value clients" clothing. 6. $1K/mo on "children's lessons". I know how this happens, because I charged up to $100/hr for private tutoring while in grad school. But it's entirely unnecessary. It really is OK for your kid to get a B in an AP course. And if they need $100/hr quality tutoring for every course they're taking, the real world is going to be a rude experience. Also, $1K/mo on "children's lessons" while the kids are also young enough to need childcare is absolutely insane.
- jgalt212 8y ago
  > 2. $5,000/mo mortgage is pretty high, even for a family of four in a high CoL area. I'll take you task on this one, as a crummy 3 BR apartment in Manhattan is north of $2MM. Interest alone on that is $6700/mo. And I've personally seen number of dispiriting 3 BR's listed for $3MM.
  - danaris 8y ago
    But Manhattan is not, I would say, what one should take as an example of "a high CoL area." As I understand things, it, along with Silicon Valley, are the highest-cost-of-living areas in the country, by a significant margin.
  - throwawayjava 8y ago
    You don't have to live in Manhattan to work in Manhattan. Or at the very least, if you value your walkable commute that much, then why the hell do you need $10K/yr in luxury car expenses? Also, you can recoup up to $3K of that $5K mortgage by cutting the other luxury goods in the budget. I guess the point is: any one item on this list might be justifiable. At the very least, each on its own is a totally reasonable luxury to indulge in after decades of not just hard but also smart and stressful work. But the budget, taken as a whole, is hard to describe with any word other than "luxurious".
    - jgalt212 8y ago
      > Or at the very least, if you value your walkable commute that much, then why the hell do you need $10K/yr in luxury car expenses? Have you ever tried to carry one or more toddler car seats to a rental agent? Even The Rock would balk at that task. In any event, I appreciate all your counterpoints, but I'd prefer to hear counterpoints from current/former Manhattan parents than a logician without on the ground experience.
- jgalt212 8y ago
  > 6. $1K/mo on "children's lessons". In NYC, these fees are necessary if you want to get your child into a "good" public middle and high school. The alternative is to pay $50K/year for private school. So #6 is a valid strategy to cut costs via attending public school--the very opposite of "luxury".

throwawayjava 8y ago

Nearly every line of that budget screams "luxury", with the exception of two things: 1. The skyrocketing cost of college really does create enormous problems. I'm assuming the family profiled are either doctors or lawyers, because otherwise those $32K/yr payments would only last for a few years at most. (I paid $40K/yr in loans for both my wife and I when I got my first real job, but that happened exactly once... and we weren't buying BMWs or Land Rovers while we were doing it.) 2. Pensions, which have largely eroded away in the private sector, were enormously valuable. The switch from pensions to 401(K)s without a significant corresponding increase in pay is one of the most significant ways in which the real value of take-home pay has declined in the past 30 years. But everything else could be cut in half, probably without even noticing: 1. $42K/yr on childcare is au pair/"elite" preschool money. 2. $5,000/mo mortgage is pretty high, even for a family of four in a high CoL area. 3. Three vacations a year @ $6,000 a pop. I take more than three vacations a year, but most of them are closer to $500 for a family of 4 (camping/backpacking). The expensive ones never get higher than $3,000. There's "getting away from work for a while" and then there's "flying a family of 4 to Paris a few times a year". The former is not a "luxury" especially for a high stress job, but the latter definitely is. 4. Luxury cars. For $10K they could buy a perfectly functional new car (which would last 10 years) every year. The only way that these are not "luxuries" is if they're required for work. 5. $3K on clothing per year, every year. That's high even for someone who has to dress nicely for work. Yes, nice suits are expensive, but they also last a long time. And your kids definitely don't need "meetings with high value clients" clothing. 6. $1K/mo on "children's lessons". I know how this happens, because I charged up to $100/hr for private tutoring while in grad school. But it's entirely unnecessary. It really is OK for your kid to get a B in an AP course. And if they need $100/hr quality tutoring for every course they're taking, the real world is going to be a rude experience. Also, $1K/mo on "children's lessons" while the kids are also young enough to need childcare is absolutely insane.

jgalt212 8y ago
> 2. $5,000/mo mortgage is pretty high, even for a family of four in a high CoL area. I'll take you task on this one, as a crummy 3 BR apartment in Manhattan is north of $2MM. Interest alone on that is $6700/mo. And I've personally seen number of dispiriting 3 BR's listed for $3MM.
- danaris 8y ago
  But Manhattan is not, I would say, what one should take as an example of "a high CoL area." As I understand things, it, along with Silicon Valley, are the highest-cost-of-living areas in the country, by a significant margin.
- throwawayjava 8y ago
  You don't have to live in Manhattan to work in Manhattan. Or at the very least, if you value your walkable commute that much, then why the hell do you need $10K/yr in luxury car expenses? Also, you can recoup up to $3K of that $5K mortgage by cutting the other luxury goods in the budget. I guess the point is: any one item on this list might be justifiable. At the very least, each on its own is a totally reasonable luxury to indulge in after decades of not just hard but also smart and stressful work. But the budget, taken as a whole, is hard to describe with any word other than "luxurious".
  - jgalt212 8y ago
    > Or at the very least, if you value your walkable commute that much, then why the hell do you need $10K/yr in luxury car expenses? Have you ever tried to carry one or more toddler car seats to a rental agent? Even The Rock would balk at that task. In any event, I appreciate all your counterpoints, but I'd prefer to hear counterpoints from current/former Manhattan parents than a logician without on the ground experience.
jgalt212 8y ago
> 6. $1K/mo on "children's lessons". In NYC, these fees are necessary if you want to get your child into a "good" public middle and high school. The alternative is to pay $50K/year for private school. So #6 is a valid strategy to cut costs via attending public school--the very opposite of "luxury".