6 ms·

Can you expand on this? I'm curious and a little Googling didn't yield much

andromeduck 7y ago
Snowden revealed that the government is capable of planting malware in peripheral firmware. So you can have a hacked bios/EFI, system controller, security chip, hard drive, SSD, GPU, WiFi/networking card/chip that is virtually impossible to detect from the main OS.
- lixtra 7y ago
  Yes, if determined the government agencies have tremendous capabilities. But will they use it at a large scale, i.e. against an arbitrary lawyer?
  - pooya13 7y ago
    I’m thinking maybe this guy was flagged because he is a lawyer and might have sensitive information on a person of interest.
lixtra 7y ago
I think we simply don’t know in this case. But if a super sophisticated approach is used, they could just as well catch and prepare your computer before you receive it i.e. if you ordered it by mail.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Apparently that's already been happening for years: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/nsa-intercepts-laptops-purchased-online-install-malware/356548/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/nsa-i... Seems like a one-size-fits-all approach leaves gaps in targeting, so something a bit more Tailored for the others make sense.
snazz 7y ago
Maybe they put a keylogging device between the keyboard ribbon cable and the motherboard? Say this device exfiltrates keypresses via a radio and a government agency, knowing where you work or live, can then pick up the data wirelessly. It’s a bit sci-fi, but well within the resources of any of these governments.
- ultrarunner 7y ago
  Security goes beyond technical means. Sometimes it also involves keeping an eye out for flower delivery vans.
fao_ 7y ago
Some russian hackers at DEFCON a few years back handed out power cables that leaked data via the hotel's power system. I've also heard of altered USB-C power cables being used to exflitrate data, and a software-altered USB port used as a radio wire
pooya13 7y ago
If the bios is corrupt it can corrupt the OS. So that the OS does not really flash it. Or there might be a hardware exploit that makes it look like the bios is being flashed while keeping the corruption or one that injects the corruption after each bios flash. In general if the HW has been modified it would be really hard to detect the exploit.
justinclift 7y ago
Many of the more technically advanced governments create and/or buy malware which is able to persist in places other than just your hard drive and BIOS. As it seems you're new to the idea, look into APTs for a general understanding of how persistent threats can be useful when they're embedded into a target: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_persistent_threat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_persistent_threat The mechanisms for persisting outside of HDD/SSD data areas and the BIOS can vary. There are a lot of support chips in computers and peripherals. For example, Intels AMT (supposed to secure PCs) has been shown by researchers to be a useful place to put malware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Techno... I'm not personally sure if there's active malware using that vector yet, it's just an example. But it also wouldn't be even slightly surprising. Does that help? :)

Snowden revealed that the government is capable of planting malware in peripheral firmware. So you can have a hacked bios/EFI, system controller, security chip, hard drive, SSD, GPU, WiFi/networking card/chip that is virtually impossible to detect from the main OS.

lixtra 7y ago
Yes, if determined the government agencies have tremendous capabilities. But will they use it at a large scale, i.e. against an arbitrary lawyer?
- pooya13 7y ago
  I’m thinking maybe this guy was flagged because he is a lawyer and might have sensitive information on a person of interest.

lixtra 7y ago

I think we simply don’t know in this case. But if a super sophisticated approach is used, they could just as well catch and prepare your computer before you receive it i.e. if you ordered it by mail.

justinclift 7y ago
Apparently that's already been happening for years: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/nsa-intercepts-laptops-purchased-online-install-malware/356548/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/12/nsa-i... Seems like a one-size-fits-all approach leaves gaps in targeting, so something a bit more Tailored for the others make sense.

snazz 7y ago

Maybe they put a keylogging device between the keyboard ribbon cable and the motherboard? Say this device exfiltrates keypresses via a radio and a government agency, knowing where you work or live, can then pick up the data wirelessly. It’s a bit sci-fi, but well within the resources of any of these governments.

ultrarunner 7y ago
Security goes beyond technical means. Sometimes it also involves keeping an eye out for flower delivery vans.

fao_ 7y ago

Some russian hackers at DEFCON a few years back handed out power cables that leaked data via the hotel's power system. I've also heard of altered USB-C power cables being used to exflitrate data, and a software-altered USB port used as a radio wire

pooya13 7y ago

If the bios is corrupt it can corrupt the OS. So that the OS does not really flash it. Or there might be a hardware exploit that makes it look like the bios is being flashed while keeping the corruption or one that injects the corruption after each bios flash. In general if the HW has been modified it would be really hard to detect the exploit.

justinclift 7y ago

Many of the more technically advanced governments create and/or buy malware which is able to persist in places other than just your hard drive and BIOS. As it seems you're new to the idea, look into APTs for a general understanding of how persistent threats can be useful when they're embedded into a target: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_persistent_threat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_persistent_threat The mechanisms for persisting outside of HDD/SSD data areas and the BIOS can vary. There are a lot of support chips in computers and peripherals. For example, Intels AMT (supposed to secure PCs) has been shown by researchers to be a useful place to put malware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Techno... I'm not personally sure if there's active malware using that vector yet, it's just an example. But it also wouldn't be even slightly surprising. Does that help? :)