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Drinking at least two liters of water per day - unsupported Eating an apple a day - unsupported Saturated fats causing increased cholesterol, thus leading to

Drinking at least two liters of water per day - unsupported Eating an apple a day - unsupported Saturated fats causing increased cholesterol, thus leading to heart failure - unsupported It seems that almost everything we've been told since childhood to be healthy has no scientific basis whatsoever.

Pfhreak 7y ago
Don't confuse unsupported with no scientific basis. The scientific method allows for making hypothesis that are later demonstrated to be false. It can absolutely be the case that the old recommendations were the best we knew at the time from science, and be unsupported today.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >It can absolutely be the case that the old recommendations were the best we knew at the time from science, and be unsupported today. It can also absolutely be the case that old recommendations were a mix of old wives tales (with no scientific basic whatsoever), bad papers (replicated and taken as gospel without reproducibility and further study) and studies sponsored by the food industry to promote this or that foodstuff...
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  Dietary science performs so ridiculously poorly compared to every other branch of science, that I can't simply chalk it up to the inherent nature of scientific progress. There are a lot of variables and complex systems, yes, but you get whiplash from the way so many of these hypotheses turn out to be absolute bullshit every few years. Really the lesson should be that no one should place much confidence at all in any of these ideas until they've actually been supported by many sources for a very, very long time. Branding these things as "current scientific knowledge" is exactly the kind of thing that gets people doubting science, and it's an insult to the rest of science.
- village-idiot 7y ago
  No, the saturated fat argument was pure bullshit from day 1. Ansel Keys cherry picked his data and did not do his multivariate analysis correctly. He then went on to bully and threaten anyone who disagreed with him for the rest of his life.
  - hmd_imputer 7y ago
    we tend to believe that scientists belong to a different breed of humans who do not hold grudges, aren't greedy, biased etc. The reality is completely different, unfortunately.
dcolkitt 7y ago
> Eating an apple a day - unsupported It's pretty indisputable that fruit and vegetable consumption reduces CVD, increases mental well-being, and lowers weight. > Saturated fats causing increased cholesterol, thus leading to heart failure Previous evidence certainly overestimated the impact of saturated fats, especially vis-a-vis processed carbohydrates. However there's no doubt that saturated fat still increases CVD mortality vis-a-vis unsaturated fats. One of the biggest pitfalls in thinking about nutrition is asking "is food group X good or bad?" The real question is food group X good or bad in comparison to what? After all if people reduce the percent of X in their diet they have to replace it with something else. Beef is "good for you" if the marginal substitute is cupcakes, but "bad for you" if the marginal substitute is salmon. [1] https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490.full.pdf+html https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490.full.pdf+html [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/0802795 https://www.nature.com/articles/0802795 [3] https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303260 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016... [4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/
- slfnflctd 7y ago
  This is absolutely correct and I don't know why anyone would try to deny it. We've known most of these things for a long time, as well as having multiple studies reinforce it, including recent ones. Filling out your meals with more plant based foods instead of avoiding those foods while eating lots of low quality meat will have measurably better outcomes: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255644.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255644.php
- Jedd 7y ago
  > It's pretty indisputable that fruit and vegetable consumption reduces CVD, increases mental well-being, and lowers weight. I'd dispute part of that -- fruit contains significant amounts of sugars, and eating a lot of fruit will result in weight gain. Eating a lot of vegetables is almost definitely a healthy option, and weight gain is unlikely.
ken 7y ago
I had to take Health class in middle school and high school, and it didn't include any of these claims. Even if it had, my health education (while admittedly not great) consisted of a lot more than just 3 facts.
- hmd_imputer 7y ago
  what your middle school Health class contained or didn't contain does not change the fact that these are very widely accepted facts in society.
jmkni 7y ago
What’s the downside to drinking 2 litres of water/day, 1 apple/day and cutting back on the saturated fats? I figure you may as well.
- hmd_imputer 7y ago
  Well, no one said there is a downside - maybe there is, we simply don't know. Just like we do not know whether drinking two liters of water does have any benefit at all. Recently, I have read an article which claimed that one should only drink water when their body demands it, you know, like becoming thirsty. The problem is, in most of the popular science circles these kinds of urban myths are propagated almost as if they were basic nutritional facts. I would personally think some mega-companies, such as Nestle, would be really interested in propagating the myth of the necessity of consuming at least two liters of water.
- hmd_imputer 7y ago
  also, you might be interested in researching why cutting back saturated fats might not be as beneficial as it has been claimed for decades now. Actually, there is a new kid in town - ketogenetic diet.
hmd_imputer 7y ago
Just saw this comment on a Facebook page dedicated to science: "Late last year, an analysis of 1.7 million people found you were 25 percent less likely to develop the condition if you had your appendix removed. Now a bigger study says the complete opposite. Believe it or not, this is science working

Pfhreak 7y ago

Don't confuse unsupported with no scientific basis. The scientific method allows for making hypothesis that are later demonstrated to be false. It can absolutely be the case that the old recommendations were the best we knew at the time from science, and be unsupported today.

coldtea 7y ago
>It can absolutely be the case that the old recommendations were the best we knew at the time from science, and be unsupported today. It can also absolutely be the case that old recommendations were a mix of old wives tales (with no scientific basic whatsoever), bad papers (replicated and taken as gospel without reproducibility and further study) and studies sponsored by the food industry to promote this or that foodstuff...
TallGuyShort 7y ago
Dietary science performs so ridiculously poorly compared to every other branch of science, that I can't simply chalk it up to the inherent nature of scientific progress. There are a lot of variables and complex systems, yes, but you get whiplash from the way so many of these hypotheses turn out to be absolute bullshit every few years. Really the lesson should be that no one should place much confidence at all in any of these ideas until they've actually been supported by many sources for a very, very long time. Branding these things as "current scientific knowledge" is exactly the kind of thing that gets people doubting science, and it's an insult to the rest of science.
village-idiot 7y ago
No, the saturated fat argument was pure bullshit from day 1. Ansel Keys cherry picked his data and did not do his multivariate analysis correctly. He then went on to bully and threaten anyone who disagreed with him for the rest of his life.
- hmd_imputer 7y ago
  we tend to believe that scientists belong to a different breed of humans who do not hold grudges, aren't greedy, biased etc. The reality is completely different, unfortunately.

dcolkitt 7y ago

> Eating an apple a day - unsupported It's pretty indisputable that fruit and vegetable consumption reduces CVD, increases mental well-being, and lowers weight. > Saturated fats causing increased cholesterol, thus leading to heart failure Previous evidence certainly overestimated the impact of saturated fats, especially vis-a-vis processed carbohydrates. However there's no doubt that saturated fat still increases CVD mortality vis-a-vis unsaturated fats. One of the biggest pitfalls in thinking about nutrition is asking "is food group X good or bad?" The real question is food group X good or bad in comparison to what? After all if people reduce the percent of X in their diet they have to replace it with something else. Beef is "good for you" if the marginal substitute is cupcakes, but "bad for you" if the marginal substitute is salmon. [1] https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490.full.pdf+html https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490.full.pdf+html [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/0802795 https://www.nature.com/articles/0802795 [3] https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303260 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2016... [4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5475232/

slfnflctd 7y ago
This is absolutely correct and I don't know why anyone would try to deny it. We've known most of these things for a long time, as well as having multiple studies reinforce it, including recent ones. Filling out your meals with more plant based foods instead of avoiding those foods while eating lots of low quality meat will have measurably better outcomes: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255644.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255644.php
Jedd 7y ago
> It's pretty indisputable that fruit and vegetable consumption reduces CVD, increases mental well-being, and lowers weight. I'd dispute part of that -- fruit contains significant amounts of sugars, and eating a lot of fruit will result in weight gain. Eating a lot of vegetables is almost definitely a healthy option, and weight gain is unlikely.

ken 7y ago

I had to take Health class in middle school and high school, and it didn't include any of these claims. Even if it had, my health education (while admittedly not great) consisted of a lot more than just 3 facts.

hmd_imputer 7y ago
what your middle school Health class contained or didn't contain does not change the fact that these are very widely accepted facts in society.

jmkni 7y ago

What’s the downside to drinking 2 litres of water/day, 1 apple/day and cutting back on the saturated fats? I figure you may as well.

hmd_imputer 7y ago
Well, no one said there is a downside - maybe there is, we simply don't know. Just like we do not know whether drinking two liters of water does have any benefit at all. Recently, I have read an article which claimed that one should only drink water when their body demands it, you know, like becoming thirsty. The problem is, in most of the popular science circles these kinds of urban myths are propagated almost as if they were basic nutritional facts. I would personally think some mega-companies, such as Nestle, would be really interested in propagating the myth of the necessity of consuming at least two liters of water.
hmd_imputer 7y ago
also, you might be interested in researching why cutting back saturated fats might not be as beneficial as it has been claimed for decades now. Actually, there is a new kid in town - ketogenetic diet.

hmd_imputer 7y ago

Just saw this comment on a Facebook page dedicated to science: "Late last year, an analysis of 1.7 million people found you were 25 percent less likely to develop the condition if you had your appendix removed. Now a bigger study says the complete opposite. Believe it or not, this is science working