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> In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of definitions and of health. No, alcohol is arguably much worse. Lets pu

> In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of definitions and of health. No, alcohol is arguably much worse. Lets put aside health effects, and even related issues like deaths from drunk driving. The more insidious issue, is that in many parts of society, alcohol is a required component of social interaction. Many standard human activities, including dating, networking, enjoying art, even religious gatherings, all include some aspect of alcohol. None of these activities strictly requires alcohol, it's just that we've been conditioned over tens, hundreds, or thousands of years to accept it. In contrast, illegal drugs have the benefit of being anti-social. Almost by definition, illegal drugs are substances that are not tolerated in society. Accordingly, doing illegal drugs provides a level of agency, it's a behavior you decided to do rather than one that has been forced upon you. It's an assertion of your free will. Alcohol and drugs are entirely different. One is a choice and one is a law.

soulofmischief 7y ago
You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. On the extreme side, you have opium and crack dens, and on the other side you have cannabis-- probably the most social drug there is.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. I was using the term more narrowly. By "anti-social", I meant not accepted by society. I didn't mean it prevents you from socializing.
- mettamage 7y ago
  I think it depends on the perspective you take. From the perspective of "I decide to do a drug, because I want to experiment with it" is an assertion of free will. However, if you have a friend being a bit pushy with weed, then it isn't. Or if you somehow stumble upon a community that you click with and they invite you to do it, then it also isn't full assertion of free will, IMO. In order for it to be an assertion of free will, you need to take the decision when no one else is around and then just look for an opportunity to experiment later on in life. That's what I did with psilocybin. And I have experienced the amazing effects of it, but man the dark side can be damn dark. I get why enough people are extremely against drugs. It's because things can become very dark and one should not forget that this is the case for a great enough group of people.
mettamage 7y ago
Fair point, I made the same observation in my usage of it. Though, I wasn't conscious enough of it to make that point, so thanks! Here's my story about that observation (I think we should be a bit more open about this, and since I'm Dutch, at least my government won't pursue me for the following story). At one point, I was taking a bit too much weed. And I was shocked, I smoked maybe once per week at best and it was more likely that I was smoking twice per month. This has been my peak in my life. Yet, I still felt really messed up by it, what gives? It turned out, that I didn't count all the nights of alcohol: 1. Every week 1 time with my GF's family. We would get very tipsy on average. 2. Every week 1 time with friends and/or GF. We would get tipsy on average. 3. Every week 3 to 4 random beers in between. It also turns out that I didn't count the occassional psychedelic trip, once every 4 months. It also turns out that I didn't factor in my occassional sleep deprivation. It's kind of like calculus: a lot of a little bit is a whole surface, and this was a whole surface of misery and the worst offender was alcohol, closely followed by weed. The issue was: cutting down on alcohol. Cutting down on weed was easy, very very easy because I also found out when I might want to use it and those occassions happen rarely. Cutting down on occassional legal psychedelics (again, The Netherlands) was also easy. I'm slowly fixing my sleep issues as well. Cutting down on alcohol was a lot tougher. I've managed to cut my consumption down by 50%. My other forms of drug consumption are cut down by 90%! It takes (and still takes) a lot of effort to just do 50% with alcohol. I have to say no, when people enjoy and smile and I just want it too. Fortunately, I quite like my sober self, and have to remind myself how being very tipsy feels (I find it quite unpleasant). So that helps, but I find it quite hard and that worries me. It would've been easy if we didn't have an alcoholic culture.

soulofmischief 7y ago

You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. On the extreme side, you have opium and crack dens, and on the other side you have cannabis-- probably the most social drug there is.

speedplane 7y ago
> You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. I was using the term more narrowly. By "anti-social", I meant not accepted by society. I didn't mean it prevents you from socializing.
mettamage 7y ago
I think it depends on the perspective you take. From the perspective of "I decide to do a drug, because I want to experiment with it" is an assertion of free will. However, if you have a friend being a bit pushy with weed, then it isn't. Or if you somehow stumble upon a community that you click with and they invite you to do it, then it also isn't full assertion of free will, IMO. In order for it to be an assertion of free will, you need to take the decision when no one else is around and then just look for an opportunity to experiment later on in life. That's what I did with psilocybin. And I have experienced the amazing effects of it, but man the dark side can be damn dark. I get why enough people are extremely against drugs. It's because things can become very dark and one should not forget that this is the case for a great enough group of people.

mettamage 7y ago

Fair point, I made the same observation in my usage of it. Though, I wasn't conscious enough of it to make that point, so thanks! Here's my story about that observation (I think we should be a bit more open about this, and since I'm Dutch, at least my government won't pursue me for the following story). At one point, I was taking a bit too much weed. And I was shocked, I smoked maybe once per week at best and it was more likely that I was smoking twice per month. This has been my peak in my life. Yet, I still felt really messed up by it, what gives? It turned out, that I didn't count all the nights of alcohol: 1. Every week 1 time with my GF's family. We would get very tipsy on average. 2. Every week 1 time with friends and/or GF. We would get tipsy on average. 3. Every week 3 to 4 random beers in between. It also turns out that I didn't count the occassional psychedelic trip, once every 4 months. It also turns out that I didn't factor in my occassional sleep deprivation. It's kind of like calculus: a lot of a little bit is a whole surface, and this was a whole surface of misery and the worst offender was alcohol, closely followed by weed. The issue was: cutting down on alcohol. Cutting down on weed was easy, very very easy because I also found out when I might want to use it and those occassions happen rarely. Cutting down on occassional legal psychedelics (again, The Netherlands) was also easy. I'm slowly fixing my sleep issues as well. Cutting down on alcohol was a lot tougher. I've managed to cut my consumption down by 50%. My other forms of drug consumption are cut down by 90%! It takes (and still takes) a lot of effort to just do 50% with alcohol. I have to say no, when people enjoy and smile and I just want it too. Fortunately, I quite like my sober self, and have to remind myself how being very tipsy feels (I find it quite unpleasant). So that helps, but I find it quite hard and that worries me. It would've been easy if we didn't have an alcoholic culture.