5 ms·

I know a guy who was "microdosing" acid. He started small, but in the end was taking a couple of tabs a day, I guess trying to chase the enhancements. He was al

I know a guy who was "microdosing" acid. He started small, but in the end was taking a couple of tabs a day, I guess trying to chase the enhancements. He was also smoking a bunch of weed at the same time. It cooked his brain and he's lucky he didn't end up in a psych ward. He's stopped now (not by choice) and he's slowly coming back to normal. I'm not writing this to dissuade people from microdosing, or from drugs in general (I'd be a massive hypocrite if I did). But to note that when left up to their own devices with drugs, some otherwise incredibly intelligent people will fall victim to the drugs. I've seen people (a lot who should've known better) get wiped out by basically every different type of drug. Weed, alcohol, Xanax, MDMA, amphetamines, LSD, ketamine, etc. HN likes to talk about the positive effects of drugs, which there are when used responsibly, but for a certain percentage of the population, they'll fall victim to their impulses. It's easy to say that if you make rules and stick to them you'll be fine, but when you start to form a habit, you start bending and breaking those rules.

mettamage 7y ago
Microdosing implies being consistent. Most people have trouble with doing anything consistently because they consciously choose to do so. For me drugs have been quite helpful. They have taught me about: 1) Some extreme emotional states. 2) Some extreme cognitive states. 3) They serve as a benchmark in emotional intensity when I encounter extreme experiences that are not facilitated by drugs (e.g. falling in love, exercising a lot or meditating very deeply). 4) They teach me a thing or two about my YouTube/gaming addiction or any addiction really. 5) If you're not careful they do mess up your mind, but our alcoholic culture is contributing to that for at least 50% in my experience. In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of definitions and of health. 6) The effect that believe and interpretation has on our actions. Sometimes one can think extreme things, and if you follow through on those thoughts, then your actions become extreme as well. This is why one needs a tripsitter. But I didn't learn these things through microdosing. I learned them by doing it occassionally, once per half a year would be a lot. I do have the fortune of being in one of the best places in the world for it (The Netherlands) and having the ability to get things tested beforehand (this is something our government is doing right). My point with this story is: while a part of my family has been going to total shit because of drugs (I am surprised they are alive, though friends of my family aren't -- alcohol poisoning), for me, they have been a very useful tool. Starting experimentation 15 years later than your average family member definitely helps. I feel that drug experimentation done well is like bouldering. Yes, you fall, but it's on a soft cushion. Drug experimentation not done well is like, real life rock climbing without a carabiner. It's like bouldering, but a lot higher and no safety cushion.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of definitions and of health. No, alcohol is arguably much worse. Lets put aside health effects, and even related issues like deaths from drunk driving. The more insidious issue, is that in many parts of society, alcohol is a required component of social interaction. Many standard human activities, including dating, networking, enjoying art, even religious gatherings, all include some aspect of alcohol. None of these activities strictly requires alcohol, it's just that we've been conditioned over tens, hundreds, or thousands of years to accept it. In contrast, illegal drugs have the benefit of being anti-social. Almost by definition, illegal drugs are substances that are not tolerated in society. Accordingly, doing illegal drugs provides a level of agency, it's a behavior you decided to do rather than one that has been forced upon you. It's an assertion of your free will. Alcohol and drugs are entirely different. One is a choice and one is a law.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. On the extreme side, you have opium and crack dens, and on the other side you have cannabis-- probably the most social drug there is.
    - speedplane 7y ago
      > You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. I was using the term more narrowly. By "anti-social", I meant not accepted by society. I didn't mean it prevents you from socializing.
    - mettamage 7y ago
      I think it depends on the perspective you take. From the perspective of "I decide to do a drug, because I want to experiment with it" is an assertion of free will. However, if you have a friend being a bit pushy with weed, then it isn't. Or if you somehow stumble upon a community that you click with and they invite you to do it, then it also isn't full assertion of free will, IMO. In order for it to be an assertion of free will, you need to take the decision when no one else is around and then just look for an opportunity to experiment later on in life. That's what I did with psilocybin. And I have experienced the amazing effects of it, but man the dark side can be damn dark. I get why enough people are extremely against drugs. It's because things can become very dark and one should not forget that this is the case for a great enough group of people.
soulofmischief 7y ago
I know it's all anecdotal, but would you mind going into more detail about how it otensibly "cooked his brain"? Also, for how long was he doing several tabs a day, and how consistently?
- toomanybeersies 7y ago
  He was doing this for probably a month or two, every day I guess. As for what it did to him. He started getting memory loss and delusional memories (thinking something happened when it didn't), as well as thinking he was "on another level" to everyone and nobody understood him. Nobody understood him because nothing he said made sense. He'd try talking to people and the sentences just didn't make sense. He'd keep getting stuck in loops or go off on weird tangents, which is normal while tripping, but even when he hadn't taken any acid in like 12 hours he'd still be stuck in these loops and tangents. He was basically unaware of reality, and unaware of what was happening to his mind and his psyche. People tried to help him, but he was completely unaware of the damage he was doing to himself and unwilling to accept from others that he might be harming himself. He makes a lot more sense when talking now (it's been about a month), but he's still not all there. I feel like part of the problem is that people don't consider "party" drugs like acid or MDMA as particularly harmful or addictive, so they're less aware when they start to use them in harmful ways. At least with benzos (Xanax, Valium) or amphetamines, people are usually aware that they're addictive and harmful when overdone.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    > I feel like part of the problem is that people don't consider "party" drugs like acid or MDMA as particularly harmful or addictive, so they're less aware when they start to use them in harmful ways. At least with benzos (Xanax, Valium) or amphetamines, people are usually aware that they're addictive and harmful when overdone. If someone considers powerful psychedelics to be party drugs, they're already making a grave mistake. I disagree about benzos or amphetamines, I have had to force wean many people off of both classes of drugs after developing nasty addictions that their rewired brains would easily write off as benign. Acid and many other psychs, unlike benzos or amphetamines, are not chemically addictive. It's entirely psychological. Their addiction profile in general is much better than most other classes of psychoactive drugs. I would wait a few more months for your friend's brain to finish reregulating itself now that it's not receiving daily blasts of serotonin. Simarly to SSRIs which inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, which doctors generally recommend an adjustment period of a few months when beginning or ending a prescription. He could get 100% better. Or at least 99%. Psychologically he may have made some permanent changes to the way he thinks about the world. But his memory and all that should come back OK. That said... a few tabs a day for months is crazy and we've never done any research outside of maybe MKUltra which has tested the effects of such a long and intense daily regiment. This really needs to be done so that everyone can be more safe.

mettamage 7y ago

Microdosing implies being consistent. Most people have trouble with doing anything consistently because they consciously choose to do so. For me drugs have been quite helpful. They have taught me about: 1) Some extreme emotional states. 2) Some extreme cognitive states. 3) They serve as a benchmark in emotional intensity when I encounter extreme experiences that are not facilitated by drugs (e.g. falling in love, exercising a lot or meditating very deeply). 4) They teach me a thing or two about my YouTube/gaming addiction or any addiction really. 5) If you're not careful they do mess up your mind, but our alcoholic culture is contributing to that for at least 50% in my experience. In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of definitions and of health. 6) The effect that believe and interpretation has on our actions. Sometimes one can think extreme things, and if you follow through on those thoughts, then your actions become extreme as well. This is why one needs a tripsitter. But I didn't learn these things through microdosing. I learned them by doing it occassionally, once per half a year would be a lot. I do have the fortune of being in one of the best places in the world for it (The Netherlands) and having the ability to get things tested beforehand (this is something our government is doing right). My point with this story is: while a part of my family has been going to total shit because of drugs (I am surprised they are alive, though friends of my family aren't -- alcohol poisoning), for me, they have been a very useful tool. Starting experimentation 15 years later than your average family member definitely helps. I feel that drug experimentation done well is like bouldering. Yes, you fall, but it's on a soft cushion. Drug experimentation not done well is like, real life rock climbing without a carabiner. It's like bouldering, but a lot higher and no safety cushion.

speedplane 7y ago
> In all fairness, alcohol is drugs, anyone who disagrees is playing a dangerous game of definitions and of health. No, alcohol is arguably much worse. Lets put aside health effects, and even related issues like deaths from drunk driving. The more insidious issue, is that in many parts of society, alcohol is a required component of social interaction. Many standard human activities, including dating, networking, enjoying art, even religious gatherings, all include some aspect of alcohol. None of these activities strictly requires alcohol, it's just that we've been conditioned over tens, hundreds, or thousands of years to accept it. In contrast, illegal drugs have the benefit of being anti-social. Almost by definition, illegal drugs are substances that are not tolerated in society. Accordingly, doing illegal drugs provides a level of agency, it's a behavior you decided to do rather than one that has been forced upon you. It's an assertion of your free will. Alcohol and drugs are entirely different. One is a choice and one is a law.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. On the extreme side, you have opium and crack dens, and on the other side you have cannabis-- probably the most social drug there is.
  - speedplane 7y ago
    > You were correct up until you said that illegal drugs are anti-social. They are certainly not. Many individuals, for better or worse, bond over drugs. I was using the term more narrowly. By "anti-social", I meant not accepted by society. I didn't mean it prevents you from socializing.
  - mettamage 7y ago
    I think it depends on the perspective you take. From the perspective of "I decide to do a drug, because I want to experiment with it" is an assertion of free will. However, if you have a friend being a bit pushy with weed, then it isn't. Or if you somehow stumble upon a community that you click with and they invite you to do it, then it also isn't full assertion of free will, IMO. In order for it to be an assertion of free will, you need to take the decision when no one else is around and then just look for an opportunity to experiment later on in life. That's what I did with psilocybin. And I have experienced the amazing effects of it, but man the dark side can be damn dark. I get why enough people are extremely against drugs. It's because things can become very dark and one should not forget that this is the case for a great enough group of people.

soulofmischief 7y ago

I know it's all anecdotal, but would you mind going into more detail about how it otensibly "cooked his brain"? Also, for how long was he doing several tabs a day, and how consistently?

toomanybeersies 7y ago
He was doing this for probably a month or two, every day I guess. As for what it did to him. He started getting memory loss and delusional memories (thinking something happened when it didn't), as well as thinking he was "on another level" to everyone and nobody understood him. Nobody understood him because nothing he said made sense. He'd try talking to people and the sentences just didn't make sense. He'd keep getting stuck in loops or go off on weird tangents, which is normal while tripping, but even when he hadn't taken any acid in like 12 hours he'd still be stuck in these loops and tangents. He was basically unaware of reality, and unaware of what was happening to his mind and his psyche. People tried to help him, but he was completely unaware of the damage he was doing to himself and unwilling to accept from others that he might be harming himself. He makes a lot more sense when talking now (it's been about a month), but he's still not all there. I feel like part of the problem is that people don't consider "party" drugs like acid or MDMA as particularly harmful or addictive, so they're less aware when they start to use them in harmful ways. At least with benzos (Xanax, Valium) or amphetamines, people are usually aware that they're addictive and harmful when overdone.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  > I feel like part of the problem is that people don't consider "party" drugs like acid or MDMA as particularly harmful or addictive, so they're less aware when they start to use them in harmful ways. At least with benzos (Xanax, Valium) or amphetamines, people are usually aware that they're addictive and harmful when overdone. If someone considers powerful psychedelics to be party drugs, they're already making a grave mistake. I disagree about benzos or amphetamines, I have had to force wean many people off of both classes of drugs after developing nasty addictions that their rewired brains would easily write off as benign. Acid and many other psychs, unlike benzos or amphetamines, are not chemically addictive. It's entirely psychological. Their addiction profile in general is much better than most other classes of psychoactive drugs. I would wait a few more months for your friend's brain to finish reregulating itself now that it's not receiving daily blasts of serotonin. Simarly to SSRIs which inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, which doctors generally recommend an adjustment period of a few months when beginning or ending a prescription. He could get 100% better. Or at least 99%. Psychologically he may have made some permanent changes to the way he thinks about the world. But his memory and all that should come back OK. That said... a few tabs a day for months is crazy and we've never done any research outside of maybe MKUltra which has tested the effects of such a long and intense daily regiment. This really needs to be done so that everyone can be more safe.