4 ms·

My entire point is consistently that the point of college is a degree. It's completely sensible for the vast majority of people to go to college for the great e

My entire point is consistently that the point of college is a degree. It's completely sensible for the vast majority of people to go to college for the great economic benefits it provides in terms of job opportunities. This does not mean it offers any real learning benefit over self-education for a variety of fields. Just take computer science, an easy one because of the abundant resources available through the Internet. There is absolutely zero gain, once again, for the moderately intelligent, motivated student, in terms of learning from going to a college vs. a motivated, well-thought self-study. Study plans are available online. Course syllabuses are available online. Textbooks are available online. Problem solutions are available online.

analognoise 7y ago
One of my favorite quotes of Sir Francis Bacon: "that whosoever hath his mind fraught with many thoughts, his wits and understanding do clarify and break up, in the communicating and discoursing with another; he tosseth his thoughts more easily; he marshalleth them more orderly, he seeth how they look when they are turned into words: finally, he waxeth wiser than himself; and that more by an hour's discourse, than by a day's meditation" It is often paraphrased today as, "I learn more in an hour's discourse than in a day's meditation." You're reinforcing my point: If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program... maybe this shit's relatively hard to learn on your own? Maybe there should be some kind of institution, where completing a course of study awards some kind of certificate... crazy talk?? It was said of of {Gauss, Newton, Euler - I forgot who} that he made his way by Euclid's Elements by simply reading until he did not understand, then thinking until he understood, then returning, until he had gone through the whole thing by himself. I am not Newton. Neither are you. Neither is almost anyone. It turns out that learning is something of a team sport, and is best accomplished (for the vast majority of humanity) in some kind of structured environment, and that we respond better to people than to screens of videos. Who knew...!
- Kaveren 7y ago
  > "If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program" MOOCs are a complete waste of time. Boot camps are just a worse and cheaper version of college, in terms of learning. They both cater to those who refuse to read. People serious about learning on their own are not going to use MOOCs. Discussion is available online about many topics. Your notion that someone has to be Newton to read through a book and understand it is ridiculous.
  - analognoise 7y ago
    Discussion...like the kind of discussion you'd have with a teacher, who knew the subject? So we're back to having people fully involved, might as well just cut the crap and go to school.
ThrowawayR2 7y ago
> There is absolutely zero gain, once again, for the moderately intelligent, motivated student, in terms of learning from going to a college vs. a motivated, well-thought self-study. One autodidact thinks: "No need to go to college and pay all that money; I can learn it all on my own". Some actually put in the effort to do so and do quite well in their lives. Another autodidact thinks: "Holy ____, there are facilities, equipment, and educated experts here that I could never hope to get access to on my own! If I use my autodidact ability to take advantage of this huge concentration of knowledge resources, I can not only learn the basic stuff in the classes but a whole bunch of advanced topics besides." These people go on to work on what people refer to as "interesting problems" at FAANG-level technology companies and have fun doing it, not to mention being paid amazingly well. Choose wisely, autodidacts.
- analognoise 7y ago
  /thread.

analognoise 7y ago

One of my favorite quotes of Sir Francis Bacon: "that whosoever hath his mind fraught with many thoughts, his wits and understanding do clarify and break up, in the communicating and discoursing with another; he tosseth his thoughts more easily; he marshalleth them more orderly, he seeth how they look when they are turned into words: finally, he waxeth wiser than himself; and that more by an hour's discourse, than by a day's meditation" It is often paraphrased today as, "I learn more in an hour's discourse than in a day's meditation." You're reinforcing my point: If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program... maybe this shit's relatively hard to learn on your own? Maybe there should be some kind of institution, where completing a course of study awards some kind of certificate... crazy talk?? It was said of of {Gauss, Newton, Euler - I forgot who} that he made his way by Euclid's Elements by simply reading until he did not understand, then thinking until he understood, then returning, until he had gone through the whole thing by himself. I am not Newton. Neither are you. Neither is almost anyone. It turns out that learning is something of a team sport, and is best accomplished (for the vast majority of humanity) in some kind of structured environment, and that we respond better to people than to screens of videos. Who knew...!

Kaveren 7y ago
> "If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program" MOOCs are a complete waste of time. Boot camps are just a worse and cheaper version of college, in terms of learning. They both cater to those who refuse to read. People serious about learning on their own are not going to use MOOCs. Discussion is available online about many topics. Your notion that someone has to be Newton to read through a book and understand it is ridiculous.
- analognoise 7y ago
  Discussion...like the kind of discussion you'd have with a teacher, who knew the subject? So we're back to having people fully involved, might as well just cut the crap and go to school.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

> There is absolutely zero gain, once again, for the moderately intelligent, motivated student, in terms of learning from going to a college vs. a motivated, well-thought self-study. One autodidact thinks: "No need to go to college and pay all that money; I can learn it all on my own". Some actually put in the effort to do so and do quite well in their lives. Another autodidact thinks: "Holy ____, there are facilities, equipment, and educated experts here that I could never hope to get access to on my own! If I use my autodidact ability to take advantage of this huge concentration of knowledge resources, I can not only learn the basic stuff in the classes but a whole bunch of advanced topics besides." These people go on to work on what people refer to as "interesting problems" at FAANG-level technology companies and have fun doing it, not to mention being paid amazingly well. Choose wisely, autodidacts.

analognoise 7y ago
/thread.