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How is this your takeaway from the article? Anyone moderately intelligent is capable of learning most topics traditionally taught in higher education on their o

How is this your takeaway from the article? Anyone moderately intelligent is capable of learning most topics traditionally taught in higher education on their own, even if they use the same learning resources that colleges typically do for the topic. The argument of the article is very clearly that prospective employees should be judged based on skills, not degrees. It doesn't matter if higher education improves. This still holds.

fjsolwmv 7y ago
Why do schools exist in the first place, if almost everyone can just learn on their own?
- Kaveren 7y ago
  To answer your point when talking about colleges, people like being spoonfed because they are lazy. This is why video tutorials for, say, programming are so popular, and why you see people ask about how to learn programming from scratch for the millionth time, when answers are a search engine entry away. The primary benefit of college is a degree. Networking is a secondary benefit, where the more elite the college the better opportunity is. There is absolutely no difference in the quality of self-education in, say, computer science or mathematics vs. going to a top-tier college for it, given a motivated, moderately intelligent student.
  - analognoise 7y ago
    Right, those people are lazy, which is why almost all of the people who complete MOOCs have previous degrees, and much ink has been spilled about "boot camps" that have better success re-tooling someone with a 4 year degree than someone off the street. "I already had a bachelor's degree in Biology, it turns out I could learn to code!" - Huge shocker...
    - Kaveren 7y ago
      My entire point is consistently that the point of college is a degree. It's completely sensible for the vast majority of people to go to college for the great economic benefits it provides in terms of job opportunities. This does not mean it offers any real learning benefit over self-education for a variety of fields. Just take computer science, an easy one because of the abundant resources available through the Internet. There is absolutely zero gain, once again, for the moderately intelligent, motivated student, in terms of learning from going to a college vs. a motivated, well-thought self-study. Study plans are available online. Course syllabuses are available online. Textbooks are available online. Problem solutions are available online.
      - analognoise 7y ago
        One of my favorite quotes of Sir Francis Bacon: "that whosoever hath his mind fraught with many thoughts, his wits and understanding do clarify and break up, in the communicating and discoursing with another; he tosseth his thoughts more easily; he marshalleth them more orderly, he seeth how they look when they are turned into words: finally, he waxeth wiser than himself; and that more by an hour's discourse, than by a day's meditation" It is often paraphrased today as, "I learn more in an hour's discourse than in a day's meditation." You're reinforcing my point: If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program... maybe this shit's relatively hard to learn on your own? Maybe there should be some kind of institution, where completing a course of study awards some kind of certificate... crazy talk?? It was said of of {Gauss, Newton, Euler - I forgot who} that he made his way by Euclid's Elements by simply reading until he did not understand, then thinking until he understood, then returning, until he had gone through the whole thing by himself. I am not Newton. Neither are you. Neither is almost anyone. It turns out that learning is something of a team sport, and is best accomplished (for the vast majority of humanity) in some kind of structured environment, and that we respond better to people than to screens of videos. Who knew...!
        Kaveren 7y ago
        > "If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program" MOOCs are a complete waste of time. Boot camps are just a worse and cheaper version of college, in terms of learning. They both cater to those who refuse to read. People serious about learning on their own are not going to use MOOCs. Discussion is available online about many topics. Your notion that someone has to be Newton to read through a book and understand it is ridiculous.

fjsolwmv 7y ago

Why do schools exist in the first place, if almost everyone can just learn on their own?

Kaveren 7y ago
To answer your point when talking about colleges, people like being spoonfed because they are lazy. This is why video tutorials for, say, programming are so popular, and why you see people ask about how to learn programming from scratch for the millionth time, when answers are a search engine entry away. The primary benefit of college is a degree. Networking is a secondary benefit, where the more elite the college the better opportunity is. There is absolutely no difference in the quality of self-education in, say, computer science or mathematics vs. going to a top-tier college for it, given a motivated, moderately intelligent student.
- analognoise 7y ago
  Right, those people are lazy, which is why almost all of the people who complete MOOCs have previous degrees, and much ink has been spilled about "boot camps" that have better success re-tooling someone with a 4 year degree than someone off the street. "I already had a bachelor's degree in Biology, it turns out I could learn to code!" - Huge shocker...
  - Kaveren 7y ago
    My entire point is consistently that the point of college is a degree. It's completely sensible for the vast majority of people to go to college for the great economic benefits it provides in terms of job opportunities. This does not mean it offers any real learning benefit over self-education for a variety of fields. Just take computer science, an easy one because of the abundant resources available through the Internet. There is absolutely zero gain, once again, for the moderately intelligent, motivated student, in terms of learning from going to a college vs. a motivated, well-thought self-study. Study plans are available online. Course syllabuses are available online. Textbooks are available online. Problem solutions are available online.
    - analognoise 7y ago
      One of my favorite quotes of Sir Francis Bacon: "that whosoever hath his mind fraught with many thoughts, his wits and understanding do clarify and break up, in the communicating and discoursing with another; he tosseth his thoughts more easily; he marshalleth them more orderly, he seeth how they look when they are turned into words: finally, he waxeth wiser than himself; and that more by an hour's discourse, than by a day's meditation" It is often paraphrased today as, "I learn more in an hour's discourse than in a day's meditation." You're reinforcing my point: If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program... maybe this shit's relatively hard to learn on your own? Maybe there should be some kind of institution, where completing a course of study awards some kind of certificate... crazy talk?? It was said of of {Gauss, Newton, Euler - I forgot who} that he made his way by Euclid's Elements by simply reading until he did not understand, then thinking until he understood, then returning, until he had gone through the whole thing by himself. I am not Newton. Neither are you. Neither is almost anyone. It turns out that learning is something of a team sport, and is best accomplished (for the vast majority of humanity) in some kind of structured environment, and that we respond better to people than to screens of videos. Who knew...!
      - Kaveren 7y ago
        > "If all this information is out there, and the only people actually completing it are those who have already gone through a degree program" MOOCs are a complete waste of time. Boot camps are just a worse and cheaper version of college, in terms of learning. They both cater to those who refuse to read. People serious about learning on their own are not going to use MOOCs. Discussion is available online about many topics. Your notion that someone has to be Newton to read through a book and understand it is ridiculous.