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Reading about these stories the last few days, it occurs to me the Wikileaks strategy is a major factor here. They have not been selective and released actual s

by JunkDNA 16y ago

Reading about these stories the last few days, it occurs to me the Wikileaks strategy is a major factor here. They have not been selective and released actual stuff that rises to the level of true whistle blowing. While the things released (thus far) might be interesting in the way a tabloid article about a celebrity is interesting, they are hardly at the level of the Pentagon Papers. The world has not learned any deep dark secrets about how the US government operates. Given this situation, when the government leans on PayPal and Amazon, there's nothing for them to hold on to and say, "We're going to fight this because we think the public has a right to know X". X needs to be something pretty important to take that position and all the heat it brings.

mike-cardwell 16y ago
http://www.pcworld.com/article/212910/wikileaks_founder_praised_by_pentagon_papers_exposer.html?tk=rss_news http://www.pcworld.com/article/212910/wikileaks_founder_prai... First paragraph "Daniel Ellsberg, the man responsible for outing the now famous Pentagon Papers in 1971, and a group of ex-intelligence officers have thrown their weight behind WikiLeaks and its founder, saying the current attempt to label WikiLeaks' leaks as trivial compared to the Pentagon Papers is wrong."
- mike-cardwell 16y ago
  Also, it's worth noting that the Pentagon Papers were released by a US citizen for the benefit of Americans. Julian Assange is not a US citizen, is not subject to US law, and did it for the benefit of the World, not the benefit of the US.
- JunkDNA 16y ago
  He's entitled to his opinion, but I'm still waiting for someone to point me to information in the wikileaks dump that is a genuine public service. I'm not arguing that the wikileaks dump is trivial. There is information in there that is genuinely harmful from the perspective of the State Department and US government. What I'm arguing is that there's nothing actionable there. I haven't read a single thing that made me say, "wow, what I thought I knew about US foreign policy is all wrong". If that were there, it would be a different ballgame.
  - ajays 16y ago
    Are you still waiting for someone to put some food in your mouth too? These leaks are more than just about the US foreign policy; they're a glimpse into the shady dealings of the "Powerful" all over the world! Want examples? How about the revelation that Jordan, UAE, Saudis, etc. are urging the US to attack Iran? The details about who ordered the hacking of Google in China? The revelation that rich royals in Saudi Arabia are snorting cocaine, while the average citizens there are caned for showing some skin? Come on! Open your eyes and read the damn things.
    - potatolicious 16y ago
      > "Are you still waiting for someone to put some food in your mouth too?" This is not the level of discourse I've come to expect from HN. Please, lay off the ad hominem snarkiness.
      - mikeklaas 16y ago
        "Ad hominem" doesn't mean "arguments that are phrased meanly/snarkily"
        potatolicious 16y ago
        You're right, it isn't quite ad hominem - it is however uncivil, mean-spirited, and a personal put-down, all of which IMHO does not belong on HN. That's the problem with this WikiLeaks thing, even highly educated, supposedly level-headed people start frothing at the mouth and lose any semblance of rational discourse. There are few moderates and way too many extremists - on both sides.
    - zcid 16y ago
      Again, it needs to be pointed out that there is nothing revolutionary there. Any surprise at these items serves to demonstrate your naivete more than any groundbreaking insight into the lives of the rich and powerful.
  - bumbledraven 16y ago
michaelchisari 16y ago
I keep hearing people say this, but it's an absurd criticism. Wikileaks has released 817 of the over 200,000 cables. They're working with five news services from around the world to comb through them. This isn't over.
aero142 16y ago
I disagree. The press had largely made the story about Wikileaks, Manning, and the tabloid gossip comments about foreign leaders, but if you go look at the contents of the cables, there are some serious issues. The biggest to me is about the corruption and drug production in our puppet government in Afghanistan. The vice president was caught at the border with $52 million in cash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak#Afghanistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_d... and was allowed to keep it. This actual stuff.
ryoshu 16y ago
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_te... A US government contractor was running a child sex slave ring in Afghanistan. It's not the Pentagon Papers, but it shows a pattern of behavior that company has engaged in for over a decade. But the individual leaks aren't the larger goal of WikiLeaks. Addressing the wrongs the leaks uncover is fighting the last war. WikiLeaks is trying to change the system.

by JunkDNA 16y ago

mike-cardwell 16y ago

http://www.pcworld.com/article/212910/wikileaks_founder_praised_by_pentagon_papers_exposer.html?tk=rss_news http://www.pcworld.com/article/212910/wikileaks_founder_prai... First paragraph "Daniel Ellsberg, the man responsible for outing the now famous Pentagon Papers in 1971, and a group of ex-intelligence officers have thrown their weight behind WikiLeaks and its founder, saying the current attempt to label WikiLeaks' leaks as trivial compared to the Pentagon Papers is wrong."

mike-cardwell 16y ago
Also, it's worth noting that the Pentagon Papers were released by a US citizen for the benefit of Americans. Julian Assange is not a US citizen, is not subject to US law, and did it for the benefit of the World, not the benefit of the US.
JunkDNA 16y ago
He's entitled to his opinion, but I'm still waiting for someone to point me to information in the wikileaks dump that is a genuine public service. I'm not arguing that the wikileaks dump is trivial. There is information in there that is genuinely harmful from the perspective of the State Department and US government. What I'm arguing is that there's nothing actionable there. I haven't read a single thing that made me say, "wow, what I thought I knew about US foreign policy is all wrong". If that were there, it would be a different ballgame.
- ajays 16y ago
  Are you still waiting for someone to put some food in your mouth too? These leaks are more than just about the US foreign policy; they're a glimpse into the shady dealings of the "Powerful" all over the world! Want examples? How about the revelation that Jordan, UAE, Saudis, etc. are urging the US to attack Iran? The details about who ordered the hacking of Google in China? The revelation that rich royals in Saudi Arabia are snorting cocaine, while the average citizens there are caned for showing some skin? Come on! Open your eyes and read the damn things.
  - potatolicious 16y ago
    > "Are you still waiting for someone to put some food in your mouth too?" This is not the level of discourse I've come to expect from HN. Please, lay off the ad hominem snarkiness.
    - mikeklaas 16y ago
      "Ad hominem" doesn't mean "arguments that are phrased meanly/snarkily"
      - potatolicious 16y ago
        You're right, it isn't quite ad hominem - it is however uncivil, mean-spirited, and a personal put-down, all of which IMHO does not belong on HN. That's the problem with this WikiLeaks thing, even highly educated, supposedly level-headed people start frothing at the mouth and lose any semblance of rational discourse. There are few moderates and way too many extremists - on both sides.
  - zcid 16y ago
    Again, it needs to be pointed out that there is nothing revolutionary there. Any surprise at these items serves to demonstrate your naivete more than any groundbreaking insight into the lives of the rich and powerful.
- bumbledraven 16y ago

michaelchisari 16y ago

I keep hearing people say this, but it's an absurd criticism. Wikileaks has released 817 of the over 200,000 cables. They're working with five news services from around the world to comb through them. This isn't over.

aero142 16y ago

I disagree. The press had largely made the story about Wikileaks, Manning, and the tabloid gossip comments about foreign leaders, but if you go look at the contents of the cables, there are some serious issues. The biggest to me is about the corruption and drug production in our puppet government in Afghanistan. The vice president was caught at the border with $52 million in cash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak#Afghanistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_d... and was allowed to keep it. This actual stuff.

ryoshu 16y ago

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_te... A US government contractor was running a child sex slave ring in Afghanistan. It's not the Pentagon Papers, but it shows a pattern of behavior that company has engaged in for over a decade. But the individual leaks aren't the larger goal of WikiLeaks. Addressing the wrongs the leaks uncover is fighting the last war. WikiLeaks is trying to change the system.