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The CCP (Chinese Communist Pary) is locking up people due to their ethnicity and/or beliefs. Inside the concentration camps, they are attempting to indoctrinat

The CCP (Chinese Communist Pary) is locking up people due to their ethnicity and/or beliefs. Inside the concentration camps, they are attempting to indoctrinate the people into CCP dogma, and away from their traditional beliefs. They are also using them for slave labor. Outside the camps, the CCP has installed suffocating surveilance systems to watch every action. They also have placed people into apartment blocks to watch their neighbors, installing card readers in the homes of people being watched that the watchers must swipe a card in to prove that they're being diligent. The only hysteria I see is in your post.

tepidandroid 8y ago
It's important to understand the context for such actions. Right or wrong, heavy handed or not, there is always a context. On HN and other social media, users always seem to think there is some kind of inherent malice and genocidal intent in every Chinese action, which is utterly absurd. In this particular situation, the context was 200 Han Chinese being ethnically cleansed in Xinjiang, dragged out of buses and cars and executed on the street while coming home from work, with 2000 more injured. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio... There are videos of this readily available. It'd be like if hundreds of white people were butchered by thousands of anonymous black people for the sole reason of being white in Detroit. What would be the appropriate government response to such an event? Mass incarceration? I mean, in such a context, can "re-education" camps not be viewed as a relatively mild response? This is not to say that it's an ideal response, but certainly it's not the worst an authoritative government could have done. In response to your point about surveillance, the Urumqi riots began because a false rumour about the rape of two Uighur women in a Han Chinese factory spread on WeChat, fuelling hate, outrage and unrest. Because this is how things work in an uneducated population. Just look up the number of lynchings, burnings and stonings in rural Indian villages based off of false rumours spread on social media. This is not the same country as your country, these are not the same people as your people. China is a developing nation with an uneducated but heavily interconnected population, a combination heavily conducive to destabilization from both internal and external actors. For this reason, their government will not hesitate to stamp out, censor, surveil whatever it is they need to in order to preserve stability. You can't judge China by the same standards as modern, highly educated western democracies - any attempt to do so is simply naive and misguided.
- learc83 8y ago
  Please stop defending concentration camps. There is no defense. There's always context. No one commits genocide without a reason. Hitler, Stalin, Andrew Jackson--they all had what they believed were extraordinary situations that justified their atrocities. You have also presented a completely one sided version of the events that led up the current situation.
  - tepidandroid 8y ago
    Please stop invoking the term concentration camp. We all know the imagery that term conjures (perhaps that is the intent of users such as yourself). What the CCP is doing is in no way comparable to Auschwitz. Ask yourself what is more likely: 1. The government of China is rounding up millions upon millions of Uighurs in hard labor camps, harvesting their organs and working them to death. or 2. The government of China is trying to contain further unrest after what happened during the Urumqi riots by subjecting thousands of people to re-education, where they sit for hours each day reading and listening to government propaganda. Do you really think any member of the CCP would find scenario #1 would be in China's best interest, especially given China's increasing exposure on the world stage? Any great defender of freedom and democracy in the world would salivate at the thought of scenario #1 as it would give them every excuse they could possibly need to "liberate" such an oppressed peoples.
    - learc83 8y ago
      >Please stop invoking the term concentration camp. We all know the imagery that term conjures (perhaps that is the intent of users such as yourself). If you don't want people to say you're putting people in concentration camps, perhaps you shouldn't remove millions of people of a specific ethnicity from their homes in order to lock them up in a camp for an indefinite amount of time. Uighurs have been clashing with the Chinese government for over a century. The government is just attempting to cement their grip on Xinjiang by wiping out Uighur identity to remove a rebellious element. Concentration camps rarely start out as death camps. When governments realize that the only real way to remove an ethnicity is to kill them, that's when they turn into extermination camps. The only real hope we have to prevent this, is to convince the Chinese government that the bad press isn't worth it. >#1 as it would give them every excuse they could possibly need to "liberate" such an oppressed peoples. There is no realistic scenario that leads to military intervention within the borders of a country with nuclear weapons and the capability to deliver them.

tepidandroid 8y ago

It's important to understand the context for such actions. Right or wrong, heavy handed or not, there is always a context. On HN and other social media, users always seem to think there is some kind of inherent malice and genocidal intent in every Chinese action, which is utterly absurd. In this particular situation, the context was 200 Han Chinese being ethnically cleansed in Xinjiang, dragged out of buses and cars and executed on the street while coming home from work, with 2000 more injured. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio... There are videos of this readily available. It'd be like if hundreds of white people were butchered by thousands of anonymous black people for the sole reason of being white in Detroit. What would be the appropriate government response to such an event? Mass incarceration? I mean, in such a context, can "re-education" camps not be viewed as a relatively mild response? This is not to say that it's an ideal response, but certainly it's not the worst an authoritative government could have done. In response to your point about surveillance, the Urumqi riots began because a false rumour about the rape of two Uighur women in a Han Chinese factory spread on WeChat, fuelling hate, outrage and unrest. Because this is how things work in an uneducated population. Just look up the number of lynchings, burnings and stonings in rural Indian villages based off of false rumours spread on social media. This is not the same country as your country, these are not the same people as your people. China is a developing nation with an uneducated but heavily interconnected population, a combination heavily conducive to destabilization from both internal and external actors. For this reason, their government will not hesitate to stamp out, censor, surveil whatever it is they need to in order to preserve stability. You can't judge China by the same standards as modern, highly educated western democracies - any attempt to do so is simply naive and misguided.

learc83 8y ago
Please stop defending concentration camps. There is no defense. There's always context. No one commits genocide without a reason. Hitler, Stalin, Andrew Jackson--they all had what they believed were extraordinary situations that justified their atrocities. You have also presented a completely one sided version of the events that led up the current situation.
- tepidandroid 8y ago
  Please stop invoking the term concentration camp. We all know the imagery that term conjures (perhaps that is the intent of users such as yourself). What the CCP is doing is in no way comparable to Auschwitz. Ask yourself what is more likely: 1. The government of China is rounding up millions upon millions of Uighurs in hard labor camps, harvesting their organs and working them to death. or 2. The government of China is trying to contain further unrest after what happened during the Urumqi riots by subjecting thousands of people to re-education, where they sit for hours each day reading and listening to government propaganda. Do you really think any member of the CCP would find scenario #1 would be in China's best interest, especially given China's increasing exposure on the world stage? Any great defender of freedom and democracy in the world would salivate at the thought of scenario #1 as it would give them every excuse they could possibly need to "liberate" such an oppressed peoples.
  - learc83 8y ago
    >Please stop invoking the term concentration camp. We all know the imagery that term conjures (perhaps that is the intent of users such as yourself). If you don't want people to say you're putting people in concentration camps, perhaps you shouldn't remove millions of people of a specific ethnicity from their homes in order to lock them up in a camp for an indefinite amount of time. Uighurs have been clashing with the Chinese government for over a century. The government is just attempting to cement their grip on Xinjiang by wiping out Uighur identity to remove a rebellious element. Concentration camps rarely start out as death camps. When governments realize that the only real way to remove an ethnicity is to kill them, that's when they turn into extermination camps. The only real hope we have to prevent this, is to convince the Chinese government that the bad press isn't worth it. >#1 as it would give them every excuse they could possibly need to "liberate" such an oppressed peoples. There is no realistic scenario that leads to military intervention within the borders of a country with nuclear weapons and the capability to deliver them.