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"LLVM and webassembly are eating JVM's cake," > webassembly is not eating any cake. And C++ is still around, and one of the top choices, despite 25 years of o

"LLVM and webassembly are eating JVM's cake," > webassembly is not eating any cake. And C++ is still around, and one of the top choices, despite 25 years of other languages chipping away at it. Java is very mature, it doesn't need to evolve a whole lot - and most everything you need is there. Oracle is definitely a risk to this, but I don't see TS/JS/Node taking over. Kotlin is a strategic choice by Google due to Oracle woes, otherwise it would be a very rare language: consider that it really hasn't made a big roar outside of Android, i.e. it's not really anywhere on server side. Java isn't going anywhere for a while yet. There will need to be some kind of tectonic shift for this to happen. If Google or AWS for example fully embrace some new thing, that might do it - but I don't see what the candidate is.

erik_seaberg 7y ago
Kotlin for JVM has a lot of potential. It takes a lot of the pointless busywork out of Java (this is Go's problem), yet the median hiring candidate can probably handle it (this is Scala's problem) and you don't sacrifice decades of library coverage.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  Kotlin is nice, but to me it's mostly just 'different', not necessarily an 'advantage'. Without Android adoption (and G did this specifically because of Oracle issues) I don't think anyone would really be using it. Outside of Android, it's not a big thing. I've gone Java to Kotlin and back again simply because the few advantages to Kotlin just aren't worth the phase shift. FYI almost every single code example in Android has Kotlin and Java the same length. It's not really any shorter or more concise in the end. I wish Kotlin well, and it's a great example of how the JVM can be leveraged. The JVM is probably Java's greatest foundational asset, which is why Graal has such potential, if Oracle doesn't screw it up ...

erik_seaberg 7y ago

Kotlin for JVM has a lot of potential. It takes a lot of the pointless busywork out of Java (this is Go's problem), yet the median hiring candidate can probably handle it (this is Scala's problem) and you don't sacrifice decades of library coverage.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
Kotlin is nice, but to me it's mostly just 'different', not necessarily an 'advantage'. Without Android adoption (and G did this specifically because of Oracle issues) I don't think anyone would really be using it. Outside of Android, it's not a big thing. I've gone Java to Kotlin and back again simply because the few advantages to Kotlin just aren't worth the phase shift. FYI almost every single code example in Android has Kotlin and Java the same length. It's not really any shorter or more concise in the end. I wish Kotlin well, and it's a great example of how the JVM can be leveraged. The JVM is probably Java's greatest foundational asset, which is why Graal has such potential, if Oracle doesn't screw it up ...