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California Dispatches Goats to Eat Brush, Prevent Wildfires
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- whiddershins 8y agoI spent several hours looking in to raising dragonflies and releasing them to combat mosquitoes but it seems impractical in the end.
- ip26 8y agoBuild a bat box, drain standing water, and cultivate a native garden with plants that attract native predatory insects. Dragonflies, tiny wasps, lady bugs, spiders, etc. Then they'll do all the hard work for you. It's the same with worms. Breed & release into barren soil, and they'll just flee to greener pastures. But cultivate conditions they like, and they will show up all on their own.
- huffmsa 8y agoGoing to have a mountain lion problem in 2-3 years.
- idlewords 8y agoMountain lion opportunity.
- floatingatoll 8y agoNorth Bay concurs! https://www.kplctv.com/2019/05/01/mountain-lion-found-sleeping-outside-california-macys-tranquilized/ https://www.kplctv.com/2019/05/01/mountain-lion-found-sleepi...
- huffmsa 8y agoA feature, if you will.
- dbcurtis 8y agoActually 2-3 nights is a better estimate, in practice, as I understand it. OK, so apologies as this is literally a second-hand shaggy-dog story, but here goes: I coordinate the maintenance of a privately maintained road in the Sierra foothills. I was chatting with the equipment operator we use while waiting for the new tire to arrive to repair a flat on his grader. Anyway... his sister-in-law does goatherd contracts for CALTRANS to manage roadside vegetation. His wife's family is Basque heritage, so there is multiple generations of sheep and goat herding expertise there. Usually, she deploys 2 or 3 big sheep dogs along with the goats to deter predation. One time on a contract along I-5 she wasn't able to bring the dogs for the first night, and lost two goats to mountain lions overnight. The cats are out there... they hide well.
- huffmsa 8y ago> The cats are out there... they hide well. There's a good reason they're as widespread as humans. They're machines. I was thinking a bit longer term. This effectively free new source of food is going to lead to fatter cats who have more kittens, who in turn survive better because there's more food.
- username223 8y agoThey should deploy some guard llamas. They are a real thing, and actually kind of awesome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama EDIT (because I'm apparently "posting too fast"): Yes, dogs traditionally do this in Europe, the States, and other places. I just thought it was interesting that llamas can also do it, since they aren't carnivores. The details of why they do it are also interesting.
- toasterlovin 8y agoThere are dog breeds (Great Pyrenees and all the other large white European mountain breeds) who have co-evolved with humans specifically for guarding livestock from predators. They’ll probably accompany the goats.
- maxxxxx 8y agoThey can also protect penguins https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35039105 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35039105
- toasterlovin 8y agoGreat story, thanks for sharing. My wife grew up with a Polish Mountain Sheep Dog. When we decided to get a dog for our family, we wanted a similar breed (livestock guarding dogs tend to be low energy, good with small children, and fearlessly protective; perfect for us, in other words). In the Pacific Northwest, Great Pyrenees are much easier to locate than Polish Mountain Sheep dogs, so that’s what we got. Anyway, around that time I did a deep Wikipedia dive on dog breeds. I found it fascinating that basically every mountainous region of Europe has its own breed of large, white livestock guarding dogs.
- staticassertion 8y agoThe national park service does this in NYC. It's a win win situation, goats eat the grass, and everyone gets to hang out with goats. The article paints this as unusual but if the NPS was doing this in NYC that seems unlikely? It was over a decade ago when I was there and I think I was told it was somewhat standard.
- 8_hours_ago 8y agoThis article seems to resurface every few years. It even mentions that it isn’t new, but I think you are right, this has been going on for much longer than 5 years in other places > The concept’s not unique to Ventura County, which has been using goats to trim vegetation for about five years.
- taysic 8y agoThis has been happening for many years, at least in the bay area
- Animats 8y agoYes. The SF Water Department uses goats to keep the Hetch Hetchy water pipeline route clear. The pipeline route is long, narrow, and goes through hills, so it's hard to mow. They fence off a section with portable electric fence and put in about a hundred goats. In a day or two all the brush is gone. Then, on to the next section. Some of the larger parks use sheep to graze down large grassy open areas. The goats are more useful in hilly areas and less picky about what they will eat.
- lostlogin 8y ago> The goats are more useful in hilly areas and less picky about what they will eat. This sort of thing is a problem here in New Zealand. Fragile environments get hit hard by goats, but I’d imagine that wildfires aren’t exactly helpful either.
- bch 8y ago> ...I’d imagine that wildfires aren’t exactly helpful either. Without knowing what specific ecosystem you’re talking about, sometimes the seemingly destructive fire is beneficial[0] to an ecosystem. [0] https://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/fact_sheets/TheBenefitsofFire.pdf https://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/fact_sheets...
- cbHXBY1D 8y agoEBMUD uses goats in the Oakland Hills every summer/fall. It's pretty common to see goats right before entering the Caldecott (heading east).
- halbritt 8y agoThe city does as well. Just a few months back, they had some around Leona Heights Park, which is a fairly large piece of land owned by the city. I wish they'd bring 'em back and take care of the Scotch broom.
- blondie9x 8y agoGood idea but why isn't this done more often and why wasn't it done before?
- floatingatoll 8y agoGoats are low-tech, can’t be patented, require regular upkeep intervals, and have a tendency to consume resources and reproduce without profit paid to the seller. American culture at one point decided that machines were the only way to control the wilderness. Happily, we seem to be unlearning both the machines and the control lessons.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- toasterlovin 8y agoAmerica has also been pretty labor poor for most of its history, which means hiring people is expensive.
- CuriouslyC 8y agoGoats are tasty and their milk makes good cheese. Machines just depreciate. Goats are also (mostly) self healing and self replicating. Our obsession with machines is so silly.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- calciphus 8y ago> The concept’s not unique to Ventura County, which has been using goats to trim vegetation for about five years. In areas where fires haven't historically been as bad, it hasn't been necessary. A decade-long drought and environmental changes make things done elsewhere (Bay Area, for example) appealing in a new region.
- lamarpye 8y agoI have heard about programs like this for 20 years.
- forkLding 8y agoI remember that Amazon Home Services had a goat rental service couple years back for mowing your lawns, not sure if still there. https://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/24/meet-goats-amazons-new-goat-rental-service-319532.html https://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/24/meet-goats-amazons-new-g... EDIT: Found it, seems like these are the guys that provided the actual goats: http://www.rentaruminant.com/ http://www.rentaruminant.com/ they're all over the US.
- mgberlin 8y agoExcept that goats don't eat grass, they eat brush. You'd want sheep for that.
- YeahSureWhyNot 8y agosheep are picky, goats have appetite for wider range of plants
- GlenTheMachine 8y agoThis is not quite true. Sheep can eat grass more efficiently because they have wide mouths. Goats have narrow mouths. But both can eat grass just fine. Sheep will not go out of their way to try new foods but if they are pastured with goats they will observe and learn from the goats, and end up eating a fairly wide variety of plants. They'll never be quite as broad-minded as the goats, but they will eat a wide variety of grasses, shrubs, and leaves. They are not as flexible as the goats and can't reach as high into trees as goats can, nor can they climb hard to reach cliffs and terraces as well as goats can, which is probably why goats are preferred for this but application. But they will definitely eat low-hanging leaves and shrubby plants they can get to.
- YeahSureWhyNot 8y agoyou started with saying this is not true and then confirmed what I said with details:) thank yiy
- floatingatoll 8y agoWhen life gives you wildfires, make chèvre.
- mitfahrener 8y agoAnd mutton
- floatingatoll 8y agoHarvesting goat milk leaves you with two resources, goat milk and a goat. Harvesting mutton is more difficult, because you're now subtracting from your brush-eating (so, 'breating') stock. If you have too many goats, there are millions of acres of forest waiting to feed them and make more milk. If you harvest them instead of use them, you'll run out of goats.
- lamarpye 8y agoYou could harvest some of the goats for meat. With some being a number less than the natural rate of increase of said goats.
- jdavis703 8y agoI know someone in Berkeley who buys the old goats/sheep. He takes the choice cuts of meat for himself and feeds the rest to his dog.
- toasterlovin 8y agoThis does not have to be an either/or situation.
- robocat 8y ago"In some parts of Asia, particularly India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, the word mutton is sometimes used to describe both goat and sheep meat, despite its more specific meaning, limited to the meat of adult sheep, in the UK, US, Australia and other English-speaking countries." A confusing use of the word on an international site.
- glassriver 8y agoTHIS IS THE ONLY ANSWER GOATS ARE BEST!!!
- ende 8y agoHas anyone compared the efficacy of goats vs raking the forests.
- floatingatoll 8y agoIf you can figure out a way to brew popular beer out of forest brush, there's a thriving culture of microbrewers who would trample your door down with their mash rakes in hand.
- Skunkleton 8y agoGoat Dung and Pine IPA. Sounds at least semi-legit.
- floatingatoll 8y agoSalmonberry Cider!
- olliej 8y agoWeren't there also beavers being introduced at one point as well (beaver dams slow the outflow of water, allowing it to actually soak into the ground rather than just running straight to the ocean)
- username223 8y agoOh yeah... Beavers were being air-dropped, and there are movies of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrOE-m7sX9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrOE-m7sX9E
- gandreani 8y agoThe area where the goats trim will likely have thicker foaliage next year. Grazing by animals is a natural part of the ecosystem. The dead foliage that they eat is turned into poop which fertilizes the ground I learned about it from this Ted Talk. Not sure if it's legit but it seems to make intuitive sense to me https://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI https://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI
- mmanfrin 8y agoMy neighbors and I rented some goats to clear up our properties in Berkeley. It was pretty neat, they are very fast eaters. Took 3 goats about a day and a half to clear out our yards.
- pedrosorio 8y agoSlightly longer read on the same approach in Portugal: https://phys.org/news/2018-10-goat-brigades-portugal-deadly-wildfires.html https://phys.org/news/2018-10-goat-brigades-portugal-deadly-...
- ngngngng 8y agoGoats have been eating grass and preventing fires for tens of thousands of years. Don't know why it would surprise anybody at this point.
- tonyedgecombe 8y agoI always thought they didn’t eat much grass, they prefer other plants or even the bark off trees before they ate grass.
- maxxxxx 8y agoFrom personal experience I believe they prefer T-shirts and wallets :-)
- GlenTheMachine 8y agoNo, they eat grass just fine. Along with everything else. They need to eqt a wide variety of things to stay healthy.
- deboboy 8y agoThere an app for this; like Goater?
- ngngngng 8y agoI think Californias would go for this. A lawn service that just brings goats to your house once a week.
- rockinghigh 8y agoThere are already services renting goats: https://rentagoat.com https://rentagoat.com
- aaron695 8y agoGoats fuck your ecosystem and can go feral and permantly fuck the ecosystem. If a car hits one and the person dies it's a lot of paperwork. Judas goats are interesting ( you GPS lock them in for land clearing ) but I 100% doubt they are very effective in general. Goats are not cheap when used this way. Goats are quaint and make life interesting and provide a jobs, but until people stop dieing from simple things not convinced 100% on arbitrary job creation. IMO this is performance art, which I enjoy but do think should have limits on money spent.
- duxup 8y agoThere are several goat services in my area driving around with trailers full of goats in Minnesota. They deploy them in parks to eat / manage invasive growth, or just "mow" overgrown areas for private folks who have a lot of land. They're really handy for steep hilly areas that need to be cleaned out. Before that when I grew up in a rural area if you had a horse(s) you'd just tie them to the fence along the road and they'd trim the ditches quite nicely.
- jonnycomputer 8y agoIn the 19th century goats devastated the native landscape of California and introduced the Mediterranean grasses that give California its moniker The Golden State. The headline picture of this article illustrates my main concern: that these goats will do further harm to native plant species. On balance, it may still be a good idea, but how it is done may require more thought.
- badpun 8y ago> In the 19th century goats devastated the native landscape of California and introduced the Mediterranean grasses that give California its moniker The Golden State I always thought it was because the gold rush happened literally weeks after the state's incorporation, and fundamentally shaped it in many ways?
- jonnycomputer 8y agoWell, could be. I've seen that reason cited, as well as the grass, and the orange poppies that grow along the hillsides in southern california.
- imglorp 8y agoThis might be an unpopular opinion, but the most natural situation is periodic small fires that reduce the undergrowth and dead wood. There are even species which depend on these small fires for their lifecycles. Forest managers are probably well schooled in this but unable to use it because people like living in the woods. When humans interfere with this small-fire process, however, the fuel load increases until there's a massive correcting fire that takes everything standing including the canopy.
- labster 8y agoIt's also a wrong opinion that doesn't understand chaparral ecology. I live in Ventura County, and there's no canopy to speak of. And wildfire here occurs at 2 to 3 times the natural rate. Given all of the anthropogenic ignition sources that occur in dry downslope wind conditions, full fire suppression is the only sane option.
- randyrand 8y agoDoes this mean California government is taking some responsibility for the forest fires? Or is it still legally all PG&Es fault?