5 ms·

Head injuries, broken bones plague e-scooter users as more data rolls in

17 points by kurthr 8y ago

astazangasta 8y ago
These were like a rash in PDX last summer but did not appear to last the winter. I haven't seen one in months. I declare this fad dead.
- ortuna 8y ago
  Look again, they are back. City did a trial for 3 or 4 companies and gave a permit to 2 this time around. So they’re back for a while.
- stagger87 8y ago
  They are only "dead" because they are literally not here. It was only a 4 month trial run during the summer.
jseliger 8y ago
Meanwhile, death plagues motor vehicle users (and pedestrians) as more data rolls in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... I read a funny tweet, "at this point i don't think i've heard a single critique of e-scooters that couldn't be more accurately applied to cars." https://twitter.com/drooliet/status/1123618317464416257 https://twitter.com/drooliet/status/1123618317464416257
- lm28469 8y ago
  What's next? Cars kill people so it's ok to sell military grade weapons to civilians? Heroin should be legal because alcohol is legal? Cars and roads would be designed way differently if they had to be legalized today. Lucky us we don't have to deal with 100+ years of lobbying and history with e-scooters so we can act quickly. Accepting something bad because something equally bad already exists doesn't seem like a very defensible position.
  - zamadatix 8y ago
    It seems perfectly logical if A replaces use of B in a way the net effect is <= the alternative. Your random examples give little in the way of realistically having that outcome as scooters do cars.
    - lm28469 8y ago
      I doubt the demographics of car users and bike/scooter sharing users intersects a lot. I've seen it in Berlin and Paris, it's mostly tourists and young people, they don't have cars in the first place. It's not A replace B, it A + 90% of B. Just like car sharing doesn't replace that many cars, it just allows people who couldn't afford to own one full time to use one from time to time.
      - cardiffspaceman 8y ago
        That analysis almost goes far enough to support "car sharing is bad" because enabling more usage of cars (such as tourists and others that don't have cars) causes more car impacts such as traffic and pollution.
- elipsey 8y ago
  >> a single critique of e-scooters that couldn't be more accurately applied to cars Operating at high speed on narrow sidewalks. I have been clipped while walking in physically confined sidewalk areas, by a scooter moving at a dangerously high speed (amazingly, he yelled at me for being in his way). It would have been hard to do this even with a bicycle because the handlebars are wider. This could easily have ended in serious injury. I don't object to the existance of e-scooters, but I think the ease with which they allow riders to operate at wreckless speeds in confined pedestrian lanes is novel, and probably needs to be addressed somehow.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- jhayward 8y ago
  "whataboutism" [1] is rarely a valid response to a criticism of something. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
wjossey 8y ago
Some of the data they’re citing is clearly going to be misleading. I was clipped, buzzed, and hit by numerous escooters while living in central LA last year. In each of those situations, I didn’t report it because they have no discernible license plate for identification, and the rider typically just zooms off at a high rate of speed. The one time I reported rider(s) to the company was when a hoard of underaged kids decided it would be funny to throw elbows at a guy (me) carrying groceries home while they blew past. Last summer, I was training my puppy to walk on leash. She’s an off the charts brave and confident dog, but she’s no match for the scooters. After getting nearly hit half a dozen times, if she sees a scooter coming towards us, she drafts in behind me out of fear and concern. I get why we want these scooters, but I think the statistics undervalue / don’t account for the general nuisance level behavior they can create for regular pedestrians, which don’t reach the threshold of injury or death.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Honestly, that all sounds rather exaggerated.
- woah 8y ago
  I’ve never ridden a scooter but I ride a bike a fair amount. If a street is unsafe to ride on, I will ride on the sidewalk. A collision between a bike/scooter and a pedestrian is much less likely and much less dangerous than one between a bike/scooter and a car. You’re complaining about someone going past you at 10mph who could bruise you if there was a collision. If they did what you wanted and rode on the streets they would have many more cars going by them at 30mph that would kill them instantly if there was a collision. You are demanding that people risk their lives on unsafe infrastructure just because you’re cranky and entitled. EDIT: fixing the infrastructure is also really easy: replace street parking with bike lanes. You demand that people risk their lives to give you free storage for your car and not startle your dog. It’s amazingly self centered.
  - tdeck 8y ago
    The safety situation sucks, but that's not really OP's problem: the sidewalk is for walking. I don't feel safe riding my bike in the street either, so I don't ride my bike in the city. What I don't do is decide that it's OK to put pedestrians in danger and break the law by biking on the sidewalk, because that would be amazingly self-centered.
sschueller 8y ago
It's like every week there is a new company with their escooters here is Zürich, Switzerland. Biggest irony is that two of the companies are from Berlin (Flash and Tier) yet in Germany these scooters are currently against the law and they cannot operate in their country. Lime seems to have disappeared after there was a serious accident because of some firmware issue that would engage the park brake at full speed. Is it actually profitable if you can only operate half the year?

17 points by kurthr 8y ago

These were like a rash in PDX last summer but did not appear to last the winter. I haven't seen one in months. I declare this fad dead.

ortuna 8y ago
Look again, they are back. City did a trial for 3 or 4 companies and gave a permit to 2 this time around. So they’re back for a while.
stagger87 8y ago
They are only "dead" because they are literally not here. It was only a 4 month trial run during the summer.

jseliger 8y ago

Meanwhile, death plagues motor vehicle users (and pedestrians) as more data rolls in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in... I read a funny tweet, "at this point i don't think i've heard a single critique of e-scooters that couldn't be more accurately applied to cars." https://twitter.com/drooliet/status/1123618317464416257 https://twitter.com/drooliet/status/1123618317464416257

lm28469 8y ago
What's next? Cars kill people so it's ok to sell military grade weapons to civilians? Heroin should be legal because alcohol is legal? Cars and roads would be designed way differently if they had to be legalized today. Lucky us we don't have to deal with 100+ years of lobbying and history with e-scooters so we can act quickly. Accepting something bad because something equally bad already exists doesn't seem like a very defensible position.
- zamadatix 8y ago
  It seems perfectly logical if A replaces use of B in a way the net effect is <= the alternative. Your random examples give little in the way of realistically having that outcome as scooters do cars.
  - lm28469 8y ago
    I doubt the demographics of car users and bike/scooter sharing users intersects a lot. I've seen it in Berlin and Paris, it's mostly tourists and young people, they don't have cars in the first place. It's not A replace B, it A + 90% of B. Just like car sharing doesn't replace that many cars, it just allows people who couldn't afford to own one full time to use one from time to time.
    - cardiffspaceman 8y ago
      That analysis almost goes far enough to support "car sharing is bad" because enabling more usage of cars (such as tourists and others that don't have cars) causes more car impacts such as traffic and pollution.
elipsey 8y ago
>> a single critique of e-scooters that couldn't be more accurately applied to cars Operating at high speed on narrow sidewalks. I have been clipped while walking in physically confined sidewalk areas, by a scooter moving at a dangerously high speed (amazingly, he yelled at me for being in his way). It would have been hard to do this even with a bicycle because the handlebars are wider. This could easily have ended in serious injury. I don't object to the existance of e-scooters, but I think the ease with which they allow riders to operate at wreckless speeds in confined pedestrian lanes is novel, and probably needs to be addressed somehow.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
jhayward 8y ago
"whataboutism" [1] is rarely a valid response to a criticism of something. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

wjossey 8y ago

Some of the data they’re citing is clearly going to be misleading. I was clipped, buzzed, and hit by numerous escooters while living in central LA last year. In each of those situations, I didn’t report it because they have no discernible license plate for identification, and the rider typically just zooms off at a high rate of speed. The one time I reported rider(s) to the company was when a hoard of underaged kids decided it would be funny to throw elbows at a guy (me) carrying groceries home while they blew past. Last summer, I was training my puppy to walk on leash. She’s an off the charts brave and confident dog, but she’s no match for the scooters. After getting nearly hit half a dozen times, if she sees a scooter coming towards us, she drafts in behind me out of fear and concern. I get why we want these scooters, but I think the statistics undervalue / don’t account for the general nuisance level behavior they can create for regular pedestrians, which don’t reach the threshold of injury or death.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Honestly, that all sounds rather exaggerated.
woah 8y ago
I’ve never ridden a scooter but I ride a bike a fair amount. If a street is unsafe to ride on, I will ride on the sidewalk. A collision between a bike/scooter and a pedestrian is much less likely and much less dangerous than one between a bike/scooter and a car. You’re complaining about someone going past you at 10mph who could bruise you if there was a collision. If they did what you wanted and rode on the streets they would have many more cars going by them at 30mph that would kill them instantly if there was a collision. You are demanding that people risk their lives on unsafe infrastructure just because you’re cranky and entitled. EDIT: fixing the infrastructure is also really easy: replace street parking with bike lanes. You demand that people risk their lives to give you free storage for your car and not startle your dog. It’s amazingly self centered.
- tdeck 8y ago
  The safety situation sucks, but that's not really OP's problem: the sidewalk is for walking. I don't feel safe riding my bike in the street either, so I don't ride my bike in the city. What I don't do is decide that it's OK to put pedestrians in danger and break the law by biking on the sidewalk, because that would be amazingly self-centered.

sschueller 8y ago

It's like every week there is a new company with their escooters here is Zürich, Switzerland. Biggest irony is that two of the companies are from Berlin (Flash and Tier) yet in Germany these scooters are currently against the law and they cannot operate in their country. Lime seems to have disappeared after there was a serious accident because of some firmware issue that would engage the park brake at full speed. Is it actually profitable if you can only operate half the year?