6 ms·

"Armstrong no doubt had privilege — she was white, straight, wealthy, beautiful" Yeah check your privilege. Reading this makes me feel nauseous.

viraptor 7y ago
> Yeah check your privilege. Reading this makes me feel nauseous. Why? What are you really trying to say? I've not read the posts beyond what's linked in the articles, but it sounds like she was writing about her experiences rather than selling advice. I'm not sure why her privilege matters in that case.
0815test 7y ago
What's wrong with pointing out that someone is wealthy and beautiful, and that this might make them more likely to succeed? Halo-effect is a thing.
- deogeo 7y ago
  Would you feel the same if 'white' was replaced with 'Jewish'? It correlates even more with success, e.g. they are over-represented at Harvard by a factor of ~5 [1]. [1] https://www.hillel.org/college-guide/list/record/harvard-university https://www.hillel.org/college-guide/list/record/harvard-uni...
  - traderjane 7y ago
    I hear people say that being Christian gives you an advantage with American authorities, like with police or immigration. Is that true? Jews have a long history of being marginalized by majority powers, which is why this kind of discussion is viewed in a different light than saying that wealthy people have privilege. Would you respond to a discussion about Christian privilege with a counter about the privileged Muslim people you’ve met in your life? Do you feel like that’s a fitting response?
    - deogeo 7y ago
      I think it is appropriate to point out that we are only allowed to notice some forms of privilege and not others, yes.
      - traderjane 7y ago
        That article doesn't try to force such constraints, and should be in line with your thinking then. And what forms of privilege vs others are we talking about? The article mentioned (1) race (2) sexuality (3) beauty. So are you bothered the article discusses white privilege without discussing latino, black, or asian privilege? Are you bothered the article didn't mention enough about bisexual or gay privilege? Or that the article didn't mention privilege of ugly people? Or was it the Jews, since you brought them up, and it looks like you want to engage seriously on Jewish privilege. Did you really just want to talk about Jewish privilege?
        deogeo 7y ago
        If you think we shouldn't talk about ethnic privilege, why did you only take issue with my post, and not 0815test's, who first defended it? Only allowing talk of it when it concerns white people is hypocritical - it's either all fair game, or none of it. You asked what I wanted to talk about - that's pretty much it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- Veen 7y ago
  What’s wrong with it is that it’s seemingly mandatory to include a “privilege disclaimer” in some publications. It’s often irrelevant, always boring, and indicative of an identity politics perspective that colours much of modern discourse. It’s irritating boilerplate that writers include to signal their political allegiance and inoculate themselves from criticism when writing about groups that are disfavoured in their politics: in this case middle-class white women.
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    What's your evidence that it's mandatory? It seems discretionary to me. Here's another article on Vox right now about white Jeopardy champion James Holzhauer, which doesn't mention his race or privilege: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/5/4/18529311/jeopardy-holzhauer-ken-jennings https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/5/4/18529311/jeopardy-... So, at least at Vox there's no such standard like the one you're describing.
    - Veen 7y ago
      You seem to have misunderstood what the word “seemingly” means. To help you out, it means ”so as to give the impression of having a certain quality; apparently.”
      - erikpukinskis 7y ago
        That's not the issue here. It seemed true to you, and I pointed out you were wrong.
exelius 7y ago
Huh? Not sure what you’re trying to say, but privilege isn’t something to shame someone over. In my mind, understanding my privilege simply means that if I want to live in accordance with my own values, I have to recognize the biases that come with my privilege and try to move past them. Social justice shouldn’t be enforced by the law — it should be a personal, moral imperative rather than a legally enforced one. That doesn’t mean there are no social consequences for being a selfish jerk, but anyone calling for the “pronoun police” is in a very small minority.
- maximus1983 7y ago
  > Social justice shouldn’t be enforced by the law Social Justice nonsense thinking is being put into law in quite a few places in Europe, Canada and the UK where I live. It is causing all sorts of problems. The hate speech laws are probably the worst are causing people to be arrested and put in Jail over rap lyrics. https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/27/chelsea-russell-and-the-depravity-of-pc/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/27/chelsea-russell-and... > it should be a personal, moral imperative rather than a legally enforced one. That doesn’t mean there are no social consequences for being a selfish jerk, but anyone calling for the “pronoun police” is in a very small minority. Even when they aren't. The social justice crew form a mob and just won't leave someone alone. So why is it then if you don't agree with the pronoun police that people will harass you? Toby Young in the UK was hounded out of more than one job because he had the "wrong" politics. He is only one of hundreds of instances where this happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDDr4EG3SIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDDr4EG3SIc So there is no technically no legal consequences but Social Justice gives people a free pass to harass those who disagree with them. To the point where people can't get jobs and can't live there life for the crime of disagreeing with the mob. Social Justice === Mob Justice as far as I am concerned.
bArray 7y ago
> Yeah check your privilege. Reading this makes me feel > nauseous. Is this sarcasm? I feel like this could be read from either side of the fence. Personally I think that the properties she has ("white, straight, wealthy, beautiful") have played some role in her path, but I don't see any problem with her reaching out to some particular demographic. It might not be one I can relate to, but the content just isn't for me. > Armstrong no doubt had privilege I think that bringing up "privilege" should only be done when it has some actual relation to the content. There are people from less "privileged" backgrounds who are successful parent bloggers [1], so in this case I don't think it's really relevant to her success. She made content for a while that people enjoyed and the money train run out. [1] https://www.ladbaby.com/# https://www.ladbaby.com/#!
- maximus1983 7y ago
  I remember when it was impolite to mention someone's race because it is a completely arbitrary characteristic.
dnissley 7y ago
I can't figure out how to read this comment. Do you think she actually needs to check her privilege? Or are you disgusted by privilege being brought up in a context where it shouldn't be?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dang 7y ago
Would you please not post unsubstantive comments and especially flamebait to HN? It leads to low-quality threads, and we're trying for better than that here. Lots of the site guidelines are about this. If you'd review them, and take the spirit of this site more to heart when commenting here, we'd be grateful. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

viraptor 7y ago

> Yeah check your privilege. Reading this makes me feel nauseous. Why? What are you really trying to say? I've not read the posts beyond what's linked in the articles, but it sounds like she was writing about her experiences rather than selling advice. I'm not sure why her privilege matters in that case.

0815test 7y ago

What's wrong with pointing out that someone is wealthy and beautiful, and that this might make them more likely to succeed? Halo-effect is a thing.

deogeo 7y ago
Would you feel the same if 'white' was replaced with 'Jewish'? It correlates even more with success, e.g. they are over-represented at Harvard by a factor of ~5 [1]. [1] https://www.hillel.org/college-guide/list/record/harvard-university https://www.hillel.org/college-guide/list/record/harvard-uni...
- traderjane 7y ago
  I hear people say that being Christian gives you an advantage with American authorities, like with police or immigration. Is that true? Jews have a long history of being marginalized by majority powers, which is why this kind of discussion is viewed in a different light than saying that wealthy people have privilege. Would you respond to a discussion about Christian privilege with a counter about the privileged Muslim people you’ve met in your life? Do you feel like that’s a fitting response?
  - deogeo 7y ago
    I think it is appropriate to point out that we are only allowed to notice some forms of privilege and not others, yes.
    - traderjane 7y ago
      That article doesn't try to force such constraints, and should be in line with your thinking then. And what forms of privilege vs others are we talking about? The article mentioned (1) race (2) sexuality (3) beauty. So are you bothered the article discusses white privilege without discussing latino, black, or asian privilege? Are you bothered the article didn't mention enough about bisexual or gay privilege? Or that the article didn't mention privilege of ugly people? Or was it the Jews, since you brought them up, and it looks like you want to engage seriously on Jewish privilege. Did you really just want to talk about Jewish privilege?
      - deogeo 7y ago
        If you think we shouldn't talk about ethnic privilege, why did you only take issue with my post, and not 0815test's, who first defended it? Only allowing talk of it when it concerns white people is hypocritical - it's either all fair game, or none of it. You asked what I wanted to talk about - that's pretty much it.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
Veen 7y ago
What’s wrong with it is that it’s seemingly mandatory to include a “privilege disclaimer” in some publications. It’s often irrelevant, always boring, and indicative of an identity politics perspective that colours much of modern discourse. It’s irritating boilerplate that writers include to signal their political allegiance and inoculate themselves from criticism when writing about groups that are disfavoured in their politics: in this case middle-class white women.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  What's your evidence that it's mandatory? It seems discretionary to me. Here's another article on Vox right now about white Jeopardy champion James Holzhauer, which doesn't mention his race or privilege: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/5/4/18529311/jeopardy-holzhauer-ken-jennings https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/5/4/18529311/jeopardy-... So, at least at Vox there's no such standard like the one you're describing.
  - Veen 7y ago
    You seem to have misunderstood what the word “seemingly” means. To help you out, it means ”so as to give the impression of having a certain quality; apparently.”
    - erikpukinskis 7y ago
      That's not the issue here. It seemed true to you, and I pointed out you were wrong.

exelius 7y ago

Huh? Not sure what you’re trying to say, but privilege isn’t something to shame someone over. In my mind, understanding my privilege simply means that if I want to live in accordance with my own values, I have to recognize the biases that come with my privilege and try to move past them. Social justice shouldn’t be enforced by the law — it should be a personal, moral imperative rather than a legally enforced one. That doesn’t mean there are no social consequences for being a selfish jerk, but anyone calling for the “pronoun police” is in a very small minority.

maximus1983 7y ago
> Social justice shouldn’t be enforced by the law Social Justice nonsense thinking is being put into law in quite a few places in Europe, Canada and the UK where I live. It is causing all sorts of problems. The hate speech laws are probably the worst are causing people to be arrested and put in Jail over rap lyrics. https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/27/chelsea-russell-and-the-depravity-of-pc/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/27/chelsea-russell-and... > it should be a personal, moral imperative rather than a legally enforced one. That doesn’t mean there are no social consequences for being a selfish jerk, but anyone calling for the “pronoun police” is in a very small minority. Even when they aren't. The social justice crew form a mob and just won't leave someone alone. So why is it then if you don't agree with the pronoun police that people will harass you? Toby Young in the UK was hounded out of more than one job because he had the "wrong" politics. He is only one of hundreds of instances where this happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDDr4EG3SIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDDr4EG3SIc So there is no technically no legal consequences but Social Justice gives people a free pass to harass those who disagree with them. To the point where people can't get jobs and can't live there life for the crime of disagreeing with the mob. Social Justice === Mob Justice as far as I am concerned.

bArray 7y ago

> Yeah check your privilege. Reading this makes me feel > nauseous. Is this sarcasm? I feel like this could be read from either side of the fence. Personally I think that the properties she has ("white, straight, wealthy, beautiful") have played some role in her path, but I don't see any problem with her reaching out to some particular demographic. It might not be one I can relate to, but the content just isn't for me. > Armstrong no doubt had privilege I think that bringing up "privilege" should only be done when it has some actual relation to the content. There are people from less "privileged" backgrounds who are successful parent bloggers [1], so in this case I don't think it's really relevant to her success. She made content for a while that people enjoyed and the money train run out. [1] https://www.ladbaby.com/# https://www.ladbaby.com/#!

maximus1983 7y ago
I remember when it was impolite to mention someone's race because it is a completely arbitrary characteristic.

dnissley 7y ago

I can't figure out how to read this comment. Do you think she actually needs to check her privilege? Or are you disgusted by privilege being brought up in a context where it shouldn't be?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dang 7y ago

Would you please not post unsubstantive comments and especially flamebait to HN? It leads to low-quality threads, and we're trying for better than that here. Lots of the site guidelines are about this. If you'd review them, and take the spirit of this site more to heart when commenting here, we'd be grateful. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html