5 ms·

.NET Core will welcome this round of Java orphans with open arms.

by nbevans 7y ago

pjmlp 7y ago
First it needs to sort out its history of not being compatible with all .NET Framework libraries.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The world is moving on from .Net Framework - including Microsoft. .Net Framework is definitely the new COBOL. It’s basically in maintenance mode. Any company would be crazy to start a new greenfield project using .Net Framework and should have some type of plan to move to Core. https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2018/10/10/net-keynote.aspx?m=1 https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2018/10/10/net-key... The presenters said it will still be released with Windows, as it's a component of Windows itself, so it will be supported for the lifetime of Windows. Microsoft is just going to be making highly compatible targeted improvements to .NET Framework after version 4. So you shouldn't feel pressured to move off .NET Framework, but just know that it's going to be much more highly targeted compatible fixes kind of going forward and we recommend that all new development that you start on .NET is on .NET Core if possible
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    I know what Microsoft wants, I spend most of my time as .NET dev. That doesn't change the fact that many libs don't run on .NET Core, or outside Windows for that matter, specially the ones that depend on C++/CLI.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      So instead of tying your horse to one dead end platform - .Net Framework - you’re okay with tying your horse to two? It was clear that C++/CLI was a dead end a decade ago. When Microsoft mentions thier “strategies” for various .Net languages, you notice which one is missing? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/the-net-language-strategy/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/the-net-language-strat... I’m very much a .Net fan but it makes about as much since as a developer to tie your fate to .Net framework or Windows only development in general in 2019 as it did for all of the companies not to move from VB6 after .Net was the future. Even Azure host more Linux VMs than Windows.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        I tie my horses to the platforms that customers pay for, instead of religious rants. I even use C, if that is what customers want to have done for them. Those Azure Linux VMs happen to run on Hyper-V hypervisors.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So it’s “religious” not to tie your career to a platform that the vendor and the market are both moving away from? If I chose my language and technology choices based on what I like and not marketability, I wouldn’t be going near React, Node or any of the cool kids stuff. I would rather not end up like old VB6 developers trying to find a job in 2008. I know a developer who worked in a company for 20 years got laid off and complained about “ageism” because no one would hire him and all of his experience in 2017 was in Windows Forms and Web Forms. Yes, I’ve been there done that too. Mid 2008, I had been at a company doing C++/MFC and VB6 and felt stuck and unhireable. I was in my mod 30s then. I wouldn’t dare tie myself to a stack that even the vendor is saying is being deprecated in my mid 40s. I’ve also left a job before when the .Net product I was hired for couldn’t find a market and they wanted everyone to switch and do PHP. All 14 developers left within six months. We all knew the danger of working in old tech.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Religion is the way you happen to defend your switch to . NET in every HN thread, even more than I bash C for, and from your story a certain uncertainty regarding what you got on the CV. Selling services is so much more than tech stacks.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So you have forgotten about the threads that you responded to where I was advocating for native desktop apps over cross platform apps, where I spent years doing C++/MFC, Like this quote: But seeing that I like the optionality of working for any of the dozens of companies that have job openings continuously for JavaScript, C#, C, C++, and even Python, I think I’ll stick with those....
    - cheerlessbog 7y ago
      C++/CLI is in.NET Core 3.0.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Only for Windows.
        cheerlessbog 7y ago
        .NET Framework is only in Windows, so it's not blocking the porting of any existing library to core.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Why port to Core when many libraries still aren't there? C++/CLI was just one example. ODP.NET, EF 6 UI designers, WCF, WebForms, Forms/WPF UI designers [0], and plenty of component libraries are still not .NET Core compatible. [0] - It remains to be seen if those designers will be shown at BUILD.
        cheerlessbog 7y ago
        WebForms is a super legacy technology, to be fair. How many web API are supported today that originated 17 years ago? There are better uses of resources than to give that new life.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Might be, but some customers do pay to keep it alive.
        scarface74 7y ago
        That’s fine. But from an employees standpoint who should always be focused on what’s in their own best interest from a career standpoint, there is no way that it could be argued that it is best to stick with those technologies long term. The chances are that either (the hypothetical) you would either want to leave the company that is still focused on those technologies or the company would leave you long before your career is over. The last thing a person should want is to have on their resume in two years that their experience is any of those technologies. There are still companies today using Visual Studio 2008 to support legacy ruggedized Windows CE devices. I have five years of experience with them and still get calls to develop for them today. I don’t go near those types of jobs.
- nathanaldensr 7y ago
  This has already happened. You're simply spreading FUD. Nearly all the major libraries .NET Framework developers have had access to since 2002 are now available as .NET Standard libraries. .NET Standard is the compatibility[1] you talk about, but seem to know nothing about. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/net-standard https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/net-standar...
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Then try WCF, ODP.NET (the full version), or plenty of third parties libraries, specially commercial components. .NET Framework is stuck at .NET Standard 2.0.

.NET Core will welcome this round of Java orphans with open arms.

pjmlp 7y ago

First it needs to sort out its history of not being compatible with all .NET Framework libraries.

scarface74 7y ago
The world is moving on from .Net Framework - including Microsoft. .Net Framework is definitely the new COBOL. It’s basically in maintenance mode. Any company would be crazy to start a new greenfield project using .Net Framework and should have some type of plan to move to Core. https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2018/10/10/net-keynote.aspx?m=1 https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2018/10/10/net-key... The presenters said it will still be released with Windows, as it's a component of Windows itself, so it will be supported for the lifetime of Windows. Microsoft is just going to be making highly compatible targeted improvements to .NET Framework after version 4. So you shouldn't feel pressured to move off .NET Framework, but just know that it's going to be much more highly targeted compatible fixes kind of going forward and we recommend that all new development that you start on .NET is on .NET Core if possible
- pjmlp 7y ago
  I know what Microsoft wants, I spend most of my time as .NET dev. That doesn't change the fact that many libs don't run on .NET Core, or outside Windows for that matter, specially the ones that depend on C++/CLI.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    So instead of tying your horse to one dead end platform - .Net Framework - you’re okay with tying your horse to two? It was clear that C++/CLI was a dead end a decade ago. When Microsoft mentions thier “strategies” for various .Net languages, you notice which one is missing? https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/the-net-language-strategy/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/the-net-language-strat... I’m very much a .Net fan but it makes about as much since as a developer to tie your fate to .Net framework or Windows only development in general in 2019 as it did for all of the companies not to move from VB6 after .Net was the future. Even Azure host more Linux VMs than Windows.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      I tie my horses to the platforms that customers pay for, instead of religious rants. I even use C, if that is what customers want to have done for them. Those Azure Linux VMs happen to run on Hyper-V hypervisors.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        So it’s “religious” not to tie your career to a platform that the vendor and the market are both moving away from? If I chose my language and technology choices based on what I like and not marketability, I wouldn’t be going near React, Node or any of the cool kids stuff. I would rather not end up like old VB6 developers trying to find a job in 2008. I know a developer who worked in a company for 20 years got laid off and complained about “ageism” because no one would hire him and all of his experience in 2017 was in Windows Forms and Web Forms. Yes, I’ve been there done that too. Mid 2008, I had been at a company doing C++/MFC and VB6 and felt stuck and unhireable. I was in my mod 30s then. I wouldn’t dare tie myself to a stack that even the vendor is saying is being deprecated in my mid 40s. I’ve also left a job before when the .Net product I was hired for couldn’t find a market and they wanted everyone to switch and do PHP. All 14 developers left within six months. We all knew the danger of working in old tech.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Religion is the way you happen to defend your switch to . NET in every HN thread, even more than I bash C for, and from your story a certain uncertainty regarding what you got on the CV. Selling services is so much more than tech stacks.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So you have forgotten about the threads that you responded to where I was advocating for native desktop apps over cross platform apps, where I spent years doing C++/MFC, Like this quote: But seeing that I like the optionality of working for any of the dozens of companies that have job openings continuously for JavaScript, C#, C, C++, and even Python, I think I’ll stick with those....
  - cheerlessbog 7y ago
    C++/CLI is in.NET Core 3.0.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Only for Windows.
      - cheerlessbog 7y ago
        .NET Framework is only in Windows, so it's not blocking the porting of any existing library to core.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Why port to Core when many libraries still aren't there? C++/CLI was just one example. ODP.NET, EF 6 UI designers, WCF, WebForms, Forms/WPF UI designers [0], and plenty of component libraries are still not .NET Core compatible. [0] - It remains to be seen if those designers will be shown at BUILD.
        cheerlessbog 7y ago
        WebForms is a super legacy technology, to be fair. How many web API are supported today that originated 17 years ago? There are better uses of resources than to give that new life.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Might be, but some customers do pay to keep it alive.
        scarface74 7y ago
        That’s fine. But from an employees standpoint who should always be focused on what’s in their own best interest from a career standpoint, there is no way that it could be argued that it is best to stick with those technologies long term. The chances are that either (the hypothetical) you would either want to leave the company that is still focused on those technologies or the company would leave you long before your career is over. The last thing a person should want is to have on their resume in two years that their experience is any of those technologies. There are still companies today using Visual Studio 2008 to support legacy ruggedized Windows CE devices. I have five years of experience with them and still get calls to develop for them today. I don’t go near those types of jobs.
nathanaldensr 7y ago
This has already happened. You're simply spreading FUD. Nearly all the major libraries .NET Framework developers have had access to since 2002 are now available as .NET Standard libraries. .NET Standard is the compatibility[1] you talk about, but seem to know nothing about. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/net-standard https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/net-standar...
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Then try WCF, ODP.NET (the full version), or plenty of third parties libraries, specially commercial components. .NET Framework is stuck at .NET Standard 2.0.