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The main drive/purpose of life is to continue and spread itself, that’s just fundamental biology. You’re free to opt out of that and define your own goals (it s

by ericd 8y ago

The main drive/purpose of life is to continue and spread itself, that’s just fundamental biology. You’re free to opt out of that and define your own goals (it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal), but without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless, because the purpose of most of what we do is to help humans. And what we collectively leave them with is the “score” that will be remembered for as long as there are people to remember it. But sure, your individual score is unlikely to be remembered for very long, except by your direct descendants.

moneywoes 8y ago
So having offspring is basically the primary goal of our species?
- ericd 8y ago
  I'd say the primary purpose of the species is to continue the species. It's not everyone's individual drive, some people not having offspring so that they can focus on other things probably helps the group.
- inflatableDodo 8y ago
  Surely that is secondary to coming up with bad puns.
iamnothere 8y ago
> it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal It is one goal of many; there's no reason to limit yourself to a singular goal. I don't claim that my goals have any special meaning though, they are simply how I am driven to act in the world. Each of us is driven in different ways, and although we tend to wrap our drives in elaborate disguises and claim "free will", at the end of the day we are simply elegant (though somewhat squishy) machines. > without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless Yes, that's exactly it. The very notion that anything has to have a "point" or "meaning" is something that humans dreamed up. It's an unfortunate side effect of our sense-making systems that help us understand the world.
- ericd 8y ago
  I didn't mean that derisively, btw. I think it's perfectly fine to want to focus on other things besides raising children. We don't need more people being raised by parents who don't want to raise them. I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. But you're right that there's not necessarily a real point. If it's a complete fiction, though, I think it's a useful one.
  - iamnothere 8y ago
    > I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. I agree that our drives can be modified, but who is modifying them, and based on what drives? And where does the drive to modify ourselves come from? It's turtles all the way down. To quote Hofstadter: "In the end, we self-perceiving, self-inventing, locked-in mirages are little miracles of self-reference."
    - ericd 8y ago
      Heh fair enough.
jpetso 8y ago
As long as enough people reproduce around the world, there is another generation to pass it on to. Someday in the future, there may be a time where not enough children are born. Right now though, the global population is still growing and we're in more danger of overpopulation than underpopulation. If I base my thinking on actual numbers rather than the theoretical principle, and in addition I stop worrying about my "score", then I can just focus on the actual stated goal, helping humans. When I'm dead, I'm gone. Them remembering me doesn't do shit for my soulless remains. I might as well do something good for people because I care about people doing well, not because I want people to care about me even after I'm gone.

by ericd 8y ago

moneywoes 8y ago

So having offspring is basically the primary goal of our species?

ericd 8y ago
I'd say the primary purpose of the species is to continue the species. It's not everyone's individual drive, some people not having offspring so that they can focus on other things probably helps the group.
inflatableDodo 8y ago
Surely that is secondary to coming up with bad puns.

iamnothere 8y ago

> it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal It is one goal of many; there's no reason to limit yourself to a singular goal. I don't claim that my goals have any special meaning though, they are simply how I am driven to act in the world. Each of us is driven in different ways, and although we tend to wrap our drives in elaborate disguises and claim "free will", at the end of the day we are simply elegant (though somewhat squishy) machines. > without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless Yes, that's exactly it. The very notion that anything has to have a "point" or "meaning" is something that humans dreamed up. It's an unfortunate side effect of our sense-making systems that help us understand the world.

ericd 8y ago
I didn't mean that derisively, btw. I think it's perfectly fine to want to focus on other things besides raising children. We don't need more people being raised by parents who don't want to raise them. I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. But you're right that there's not necessarily a real point. If it's a complete fiction, though, I think it's a useful one.
- iamnothere 8y ago
  > I do think we can modify our drives, though, and that free will isn't quite as much of an illusion as you say. Visualization is pretty powerful. I agree that our drives can be modified, but who is modifying them, and based on what drives? And where does the drive to modify ourselves come from? It's turtles all the way down. To quote Hofstadter: "In the end, we self-perceiving, self-inventing, locked-in mirages are little miracles of self-reference."
  - ericd 8y ago
    Heh fair enough.

jpetso 8y ago

As long as enough people reproduce around the world, there is another generation to pass it on to. Someday in the future, there may be a time where not enough children are born. Right now though, the global population is still growing and we're in more danger of overpopulation than underpopulation. If I base my thinking on actual numbers rather than the theoretical principle, and in addition I stop worrying about my "score", then I can just focus on the actual stated goal, helping humans. When I'm dead, I'm gone. Them remembering me doesn't do shit for my soulless remains. I might as well do something good for people because I care about people doing well, not because I want people to care about me even after I'm gone.