6 ms·

This is a goddamned disaster. I'm just thankful that I use an offline password manager, but even still ... I like FF, don't get me wrong, but this is going to

This is a goddamned disaster. I'm just thankful that I use an offline password manager, but even still ... I like FF, don't get me wrong, but this is going to absolutely fucking destroy user trust in Mozilla. This kind of incompetence, on a browser scale, is breathtaking.

dontbenebby 7y ago
>This is a goddamned disaster. I'm just thankful that I use an offline password manager I'm not sure this cert is used with the PW manager?
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > I'm not sure this cert is used with the PW manager? Firefox password storage isn't even encrypted by default, last I checked.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- vatueil 7y ago
  I think MrEldritch is referring not to Firefox's built-in password manager, but third-party password managers such as Bitwarden, KeePass, and LastPass. Those rely on add-ons for browser integration.
  - MrEldritch 7y ago
    That's what I meant, yes. (I didn't even know that KeePass could be integrated with the browser, I've just been manually copy-pasting)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - vatueil 7y ago
      They don't have an official add-on, but they do list a few unofficial browser extensions on their download page: https://keepass.info/download.html https://keepass.info/download.html Example: https://subdavis.com/Tusk/ https://subdavis.com/Tusk/
      - drewmol 7y ago
        One you have targets mapped correctly keepass2android is great and I now that I've gotten used to it, I prefer the system ui password filling for everything including the browser. Also installing the keyboard extension is great and makes for an easy way to quickly access logins.
sixothree 7y ago
Still beats using Chrome.
- bifrost 7y ago
  Absolutely. 100% true.
  - bifrost 7y ago
    Aaaand I got downvoted by a fanboy.
SimeVidas 7y ago
I dunno. I’m a typical Firefox user, and I’d rather jump off a bridge than switch to a different browser because of a fuckup like this. People make mistakes, but Mozilla still stands for things that certain other browser vendors don’t, last time I checked.
- ngold 7y ago
  Once Palemoon went to crap Firefox is the last one that does what I want. Good luck mozilla, I'm sure you guys are losing your minds right now.
- mevile 7y ago
  That's my thinking too. I went back to Firefox a few months ago and it is back to being a fantastic browser now, and it feels good to use something that is also a force for good. I'm hoping they resolve this quickly and that it all turns out ok.
  - drewmol 7y ago
    >and that it all turns out ok. While I agree with you two assuming the bridge is over water and not too high, there are real consequences that cannot be reversed. I cannot unsee the ads I saw in the past few minutes before switching to nightly.
- Karunamon 7y ago
  Sadly, what they "stand for" and what they actually do are two different things. This is exactly the kind of centralization that a company supporting a "free and open internet" (to use their words) should be against on principle, let alone pushing in their only product of note. This should not be possible. Worse, had they not taken the paternalistic, nanny-like stance that you can't even disable the signing checks, I could roll out a script that would make this a non-issue for my users. But no, thanks Mozilla for ruining my Monday. Might not be the most substantive comment I could possibly make in the circumstances, but I'm pissed. The only appropriate response feels like a string of infuriated profanity directed at their incompetence and decision-making.
- 7y ago
someexgamedev 7y ago
I use firefox and am probably affected by this but don't even really notice atm. This doesn't even register on my user trust spectrum when the only other option is the browser that defines surveillance capitalism. I think we'll all live. No need for the chicken little act.
- livueta 7y ago
  I'm not sure the GP is overstating things. For technical folks with technical reasons to be using Firefox: yeah, a mass exodus is unlikely purely because there aren't any good alternatives. What are you going to jump to? Chrome, and knuckle under to the Goog? Unbranded FF forks and be weeks behind on patches? Doubtful. My concern is around non-technical users (the group, mind you, that Firefox has been spending marketing dosh on courting recently with Quantum and all) who don't have as compelling reasons for not just switching back to Chrome. In the last hour, I've gotten several phone calls from family members asking me why the browser I convinced them to use is broken. I don't have a good answer, because platitudes about surveillance and muh freedoms don't count for shit when your grandma just wants to get rid of the ads on the local newspaper site. I'm personally going nowhere and deeply appreciate Mozilla for all the work on FF and friends, occasional fuckups aside, but I don't think this is going to be a non-event for a browser that's been desperately fighting to regain market/mind-share.
  - crehn 7y ago
    platitudes about surveillance and muh freedoms don't count for shit when your grandma just wants to get rid of the ads on the local newspaper site Very much this. People are often too quick to forget who their customers are and what they really want.
  - BuckRogers 7y ago
    I'm using the Chromium-based Edge at work, and it's going to be a great browser. It's the one that most people should switch to if they want to leave Firefox. I've been using Firefox since 2002 and never left, but native browsers like Safari/Edge are appealing for many reasons, including deep integration for the best battery use. I tend to recommend people use native browsers or Firefox but never anything else.
yourpaltod 7y ago
Yes, this is truly a gut-punch for everyone who has spent a bunch of time and effort getting their family and friends on a decent, cross-platform password manager (like LastPass, 1Password, or Dashlane).
unreal37 7y ago
Seems like an over-reaction. "Destroy user trust in Mozilla?" Really? Because your extensions got disabled for a day?
- yifanl 7y ago
  Users will drop a product for the slightest reason. For instance, one of our users recently left a negative review. Paraphrasing, "Logging in is difficult". We check our warning system (set up to detect suspicious logins, incidentally also catches any users who've been locked out because they forgot their password), and his last login attempt took a total of two tries.
  - omnimus 7y ago
    Honestly then he is just an idiot and he will come back when he realizes he has to login to other services too.
- jchw 7y ago
  (Big fat disclaimer: I work for Google. These are my opinions and not my employers. I don't work on browsers. I test my code in Firefox. Etc etc.) Sadly, I have to agree that this feels like a big blow to user trust. User trust is not really just about respect or values; it definitely also includes things like performance and reliability. The average user, right now feeling powerless, might even feel anger towards Mozilla for this - after all, they already downloaded the extension, why would they all just stop working behind their backs? They don't understand what CAs are or why certificates expire. People don't frankly care what place your heart is in when they are angry about something. Perhaps people are being dramatic, but that's normal. People are pretty darn dramatic about Chrome, too. Meanwhile... I use Firefox everywhere, and I've lost my password manager, adblocking, security-related extensions, etc. all in one go, and the only solutions I'm aware of involve disabling extension signing. Gotta admit, even though I will probably continue using Firefox after this, that it certainly is a bummer.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    > this feels like a big blow to user trust. And yet every other major browser vendor has punched their users with far worse catastrophes of privacy, security, ripping away features, breaking features, and general shitheaddedness. Switching browsers because of this incident is like ordering a burger at your favourite restaurant and one time it comes out without the meat patty, so in protest you switch to a crappy alternative restaurant that has had a long history of health code violations.
jammygit 7y ago
On Linux, Dashlane only has a browser extension. Luckily, Bitwarden has both desktop and browser versions on Linux.

dontbenebby 7y ago

>This is a goddamned disaster. I'm just thankful that I use an offline password manager I'm not sure this cert is used with the PW manager?

chimeracoder 7y ago
> I'm not sure this cert is used with the PW manager? Firefox password storage isn't even encrypted by default, last I checked.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
vatueil 7y ago
I think MrEldritch is referring not to Firefox's built-in password manager, but third-party password managers such as Bitwarden, KeePass, and LastPass. Those rely on add-ons for browser integration.
- MrEldritch 7y ago
  That's what I meant, yes. (I didn't even know that KeePass could be integrated with the browser, I've just been manually copy-pasting)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - vatueil 7y ago
    They don't have an official add-on, but they do list a few unofficial browser extensions on their download page: https://keepass.info/download.html https://keepass.info/download.html Example: https://subdavis.com/Tusk/ https://subdavis.com/Tusk/
    - drewmol 7y ago
      One you have targets mapped correctly keepass2android is great and I now that I've gotten used to it, I prefer the system ui password filling for everything including the browser. Also installing the keyboard extension is great and makes for an easy way to quickly access logins.

sixothree 7y ago

Still beats using Chrome.

bifrost 7y ago
Absolutely. 100% true.
- bifrost 7y ago
  Aaaand I got downvoted by a fanboy.

SimeVidas 7y ago

I dunno. I’m a typical Firefox user, and I’d rather jump off a bridge than switch to a different browser because of a fuckup like this. People make mistakes, but Mozilla still stands for things that certain other browser vendors don’t, last time I checked.

ngold 7y ago
Once Palemoon went to crap Firefox is the last one that does what I want. Good luck mozilla, I'm sure you guys are losing your minds right now.
mevile 7y ago
That's my thinking too. I went back to Firefox a few months ago and it is back to being a fantastic browser now, and it feels good to use something that is also a force for good. I'm hoping they resolve this quickly and that it all turns out ok.
- drewmol 7y ago
  >and that it all turns out ok. While I agree with you two assuming the bridge is over water and not too high, there are real consequences that cannot be reversed. I cannot unsee the ads I saw in the past few minutes before switching to nightly.
Karunamon 7y ago
Sadly, what they "stand for" and what they actually do are two different things. This is exactly the kind of centralization that a company supporting a "free and open internet" (to use their words) should be against on principle, let alone pushing in their only product of note. This should not be possible. Worse, had they not taken the paternalistic, nanny-like stance that you can't even disable the signing checks, I could roll out a script that would make this a non-issue for my users. But no, thanks Mozilla for ruining my Monday. Might not be the most substantive comment I could possibly make in the circumstances, but I'm pissed. The only appropriate response feels like a string of infuriated profanity directed at their incompetence and decision-making.
7y ago

someexgamedev 7y ago

I use firefox and am probably affected by this but don't even really notice atm. This doesn't even register on my user trust spectrum when the only other option is the browser that defines surveillance capitalism. I think we'll all live. No need for the chicken little act.

livueta 7y ago
I'm not sure the GP is overstating things. For technical folks with technical reasons to be using Firefox: yeah, a mass exodus is unlikely purely because there aren't any good alternatives. What are you going to jump to? Chrome, and knuckle under to the Goog? Unbranded FF forks and be weeks behind on patches? Doubtful. My concern is around non-technical users (the group, mind you, that Firefox has been spending marketing dosh on courting recently with Quantum and all) who don't have as compelling reasons for not just switching back to Chrome. In the last hour, I've gotten several phone calls from family members asking me why the browser I convinced them to use is broken. I don't have a good answer, because platitudes about surveillance and muh freedoms don't count for shit when your grandma just wants to get rid of the ads on the local newspaper site. I'm personally going nowhere and deeply appreciate Mozilla for all the work on FF and friends, occasional fuckups aside, but I don't think this is going to be a non-event for a browser that's been desperately fighting to regain market/mind-share.
- crehn 7y ago
  platitudes about surveillance and muh freedoms don't count for shit when your grandma just wants to get rid of the ads on the local newspaper site Very much this. People are often too quick to forget who their customers are and what they really want.
- BuckRogers 7y ago
  I'm using the Chromium-based Edge at work, and it's going to be a great browser. It's the one that most people should switch to if they want to leave Firefox. I've been using Firefox since 2002 and never left, but native browsers like Safari/Edge are appealing for many reasons, including deep integration for the best battery use. I tend to recommend people use native browsers or Firefox but never anything else.

yourpaltod 7y ago

Yes, this is truly a gut-punch for everyone who has spent a bunch of time and effort getting their family and friends on a decent, cross-platform password manager (like LastPass, 1Password, or Dashlane).

unreal37 7y ago

Seems like an over-reaction. "Destroy user trust in Mozilla?" Really? Because your extensions got disabled for a day?

yifanl 7y ago
Users will drop a product for the slightest reason. For instance, one of our users recently left a negative review. Paraphrasing, "Logging in is difficult". We check our warning system (set up to detect suspicious logins, incidentally also catches any users who've been locked out because they forgot their password), and his last login attempt took a total of two tries.
- omnimus 7y ago
  Honestly then he is just an idiot and he will come back when he realizes he has to login to other services too.
jchw 7y ago
(Big fat disclaimer: I work for Google. These are my opinions and not my employers. I don't work on browsers. I test my code in Firefox. Etc etc.) Sadly, I have to agree that this feels like a big blow to user trust. User trust is not really just about respect or values; it definitely also includes things like performance and reliability. The average user, right now feeling powerless, might even feel anger towards Mozilla for this - after all, they already downloaded the extension, why would they all just stop working behind their backs? They don't understand what CAs are or why certificates expire. People don't frankly care what place your heart is in when they are angry about something. Perhaps people are being dramatic, but that's normal. People are pretty darn dramatic about Chrome, too. Meanwhile... I use Firefox everywhere, and I've lost my password manager, adblocking, security-related extensions, etc. all in one go, and the only solutions I'm aware of involve disabling extension signing. Gotta admit, even though I will probably continue using Firefox after this, that it certainly is a bummer.
- sjwright 7y ago
  > this feels like a big blow to user trust. And yet every other major browser vendor has punched their users with far worse catastrophes of privacy, security, ripping away features, breaking features, and general shitheaddedness. Switching browsers because of this incident is like ordering a burger at your favourite restaurant and one time it comes out without the meat patty, so in protest you switch to a crappy alternative restaurant that has had a long history of health code violations.

jammygit 7y ago

On Linux, Dashlane only has a browser extension. Luckily, Bitwarden has both desktop and browser versions on Linux.