4 ms·

Meh, there is a difference between not having much to your name and having a fat debt collector sitting on your neck. "sure, there is no way you can walk over

Meh, there is a difference between not having much to your name and having a fat debt collector sitting on your neck. "sure, there is no way you can walk over that pile of broken glass without cutting your feet, so fuck it, lets get naked and roll around in it, at least you'll feel the breeze gently waving your nether parts for the first half of the process"

mschuster91 7y ago
She's one medical emergency or expensive treatment (cancer) away from bankruptcy anyway, which can wipe out her savings in an instant. No matter what, there will always be debt collectors looming over her head.
- ericd 7y ago
  Insurance is a thing... you do have to build up enough savings to survive while not working, but that’s doable if you don’t blow everything on traveling and other luxuries.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    I doubt this. Even as a German I regularly get healthcare gofundme's in my twitter feed. HN frontpage regularly has horror stories about billing, including "out of network" hospitals in emergencies. There is no way one can build up savings to shoulder such shit, much less are savings to be used for medical issues!
    - ericd 7y ago
      As an American currently working with healthcare data, I’m familiar with the abundant failings of the US healthcare system. But I think it’s a mistake to think that it’s completely unavoidable and take a fatalistic attitude and feel like you always have a sword hanging over your head. As far as I can tell, it’s avoidable, but you need to get decent insurance before you’re sick, and to save up money to help you ride out times when you’re not making money (as well as pay the deductible/out of pocket portion). This is definitely expensive, and if you make no money, it can be difficult (though you'd then likely qualify for Medicaid). But many Americans do make quite a lot, and spend everything they make (and more) during the good times, even if they pull in >$100k/yr. Consumerism has a much stronger hold here than it does in Europe. EDIT: A bit more, since I didn't really address your comment about out of network charges. In the event that you get balance billed for some surprise out of network charge despite going to an in-network facility, you likely don't have to pay it, even though they're invoicing you. Contacting your insurer about it will likely take care of it. And if it turns out that you do need to pay it, hospitals are generally willing to accept $0.10-0.20 on the dollar for self-payers who can't pay, before they send it to collections. You don't have to pay the retail price, which is totally made up and has very little relation to what they'd accept. This is largely due to their adversarial relationship with the insurance companies, which force them to accept the lesser of their retail price and their contracted rate. Think of the high prices as the starting point in their negotiations. I fully agree that the US healthcare system is very messed up, and that what I'm saying sounds insane and unnecessary. I wish we had a single-payer system in the US (with optional private insurance on the side). Fortunately, it seems like people are getting sick of this, and we're getting closer to getting that. I just wouldn't take the attitude that the world is totally fucked, so you should live for today.
      - mschuster91 7y ago
        > Fortunately, it seems like people are getting sick of this, and we're getting closer to getting that. I just wouldn't take the attitude that the world is totally fucked, so you should live for today. That depends if the US gets another four years of Trump, or a repeat of the final Obama years with a sane President blocked by a Republican-dominated congress. I would not be so certain that the outcome of the 2020 election is a Democrat president, a Democrat controlled House and a Democrat controlled Senate - and even if all three end up in Democrat hands (which I hope for!) those in power should rather not be bought off by the insurance industry. To make it worse, even if all stars align and all of this happens, there still remains the problem of exploding rents preventing anyone who rents (=99% of the young population) to make meaningful savings or retirement contributions, and to top that one off student loans also are in dire need of reform and hell will freeze over before the US will even consider the German model of tax-funded world class universities.
- UnFleshedOne 7y ago
  I never understood this line of reasoning -- sure you are one big disaster away from bankruptcy, why not pile on and be _also_ at risk of moderate mishaps sending you into bankruptcy spiral. A meteor can kill me in the next five minutes, why would I ever bother going to the gym? In fact, w

mschuster91 7y ago

She's one medical emergency or expensive treatment (cancer) away from bankruptcy anyway, which can wipe out her savings in an instant. No matter what, there will always be debt collectors looming over her head.

ericd 7y ago
Insurance is a thing... you do have to build up enough savings to survive while not working, but that’s doable if you don’t blow everything on traveling and other luxuries.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  I doubt this. Even as a German I regularly get healthcare gofundme's in my twitter feed. HN frontpage regularly has horror stories about billing, including "out of network" hospitals in emergencies. There is no way one can build up savings to shoulder such shit, much less are savings to be used for medical issues!
  - ericd 7y ago
    As an American currently working with healthcare data, I’m familiar with the abundant failings of the US healthcare system. But I think it’s a mistake to think that it’s completely unavoidable and take a fatalistic attitude and feel like you always have a sword hanging over your head. As far as I can tell, it’s avoidable, but you need to get decent insurance before you’re sick, and to save up money to help you ride out times when you’re not making money (as well as pay the deductible/out of pocket portion). This is definitely expensive, and if you make no money, it can be difficult (though you'd then likely qualify for Medicaid). But many Americans do make quite a lot, and spend everything they make (and more) during the good times, even if they pull in >$100k/yr. Consumerism has a much stronger hold here than it does in Europe. EDIT: A bit more, since I didn't really address your comment about out of network charges. In the event that you get balance billed for some surprise out of network charge despite going to an in-network facility, you likely don't have to pay it, even though they're invoicing you. Contacting your insurer about it will likely take care of it. And if it turns out that you do need to pay it, hospitals are generally willing to accept $0.10-0.20 on the dollar for self-payers who can't pay, before they send it to collections. You don't have to pay the retail price, which is totally made up and has very little relation to what they'd accept. This is largely due to their adversarial relationship with the insurance companies, which force them to accept the lesser of their retail price and their contracted rate. Think of the high prices as the starting point in their negotiations. I fully agree that the US healthcare system is very messed up, and that what I'm saying sounds insane and unnecessary. I wish we had a single-payer system in the US (with optional private insurance on the side). Fortunately, it seems like people are getting sick of this, and we're getting closer to getting that. I just wouldn't take the attitude that the world is totally fucked, so you should live for today.
    - mschuster91 7y ago
      > Fortunately, it seems like people are getting sick of this, and we're getting closer to getting that. I just wouldn't take the attitude that the world is totally fucked, so you should live for today. That depends if the US gets another four years of Trump, or a repeat of the final Obama years with a sane President blocked by a Republican-dominated congress. I would not be so certain that the outcome of the 2020 election is a Democrat president, a Democrat controlled House and a Democrat controlled Senate - and even if all three end up in Democrat hands (which I hope for!) those in power should rather not be bought off by the insurance industry. To make it worse, even if all stars align and all of this happens, there still remains the problem of exploding rents preventing anyone who rents (=99% of the young population) to make meaningful savings or retirement contributions, and to top that one off student loans also are in dire need of reform and hell will freeze over before the US will even consider the German model of tax-funded world class universities.
UnFleshedOne 7y ago
I never understood this line of reasoning -- sure you are one big disaster away from bankruptcy, why not pile on and be _also_ at risk of moderate mishaps sending you into bankruptcy spiral. A meteor can kill me in the next five minutes, why would I ever bother going to the gym? In fact, w