5 ms·

It's interesting to see that the old yiddish typewriter layout is actually not identical to the modern hebrew typing layout. While they're almost identical, ab

by jsharf 7y ago

It's interesting to see that the old yiddish typewriter layout is actually not identical to the modern hebrew typing layout. While they're almost identical, about 5 letters have been swapped: ח, א, ס, ף, and ב is just removed from where it is in the modern layout, and moved to the top right, in a location that modern keyboard's don't have (to the right of where P would be, in QWERTY).

azernik 7y ago
Well of course it's not identical - they were assembled independently (this one by some random schmoe in New York) optimized for different letter and digram frequencies in different languages. I'm actually impressed by how similar they are. Another reason for difference, aside from frequency differences in the two languages, is that this keyboard distinguishes some characters that aren't on modern Hebrew keyboards. For example, there are separate אָ and א, בּ and ב, etc.
- MagicPropmaker 7y ago
  And double yod and double vov. Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available. Apple doesn’t.
  - nanna 7y ago
    > Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available Do they?
wolf550e 7y ago
Being a Germanic language that has vowels, Yiddish should not have the same keyboard layout as a Semitic language.
- onyva 7y ago
  Yiddish really has nothing to do with Hebrew other than the script and borrowed words which are forced into it. Sort of like Farsi and Arabic. It’s unfortunate that because of the number advantage Eastern Europeans (and historical events) Jewish culture was completely altered. Authentic Jewish culture and traditions, which were dominant before the holocaust and are so much part of the Middle East and of course deeply influenced by, and influencing on, Islam and Arabic, are obscured. Some suggest the difference is more than tradition, and we are in fact separate people. Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Zionism tried so very hard to burry it and the culture it represented. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
  - oldgradstudent 7y ago
    > Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Yiddish is spoken in Israel by significant parts of the Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community. The number of speakers is probably in the low hundreds of thousands.
    - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
      Indeed, Yiddish is used in Israel, but consider the demographics here. Foreigners don’t come into much contact with the Yiddish-using Haredim. The Haredim tend to stay within their own communities, which are not neighbourhoods where just any tourist is going to pass through. Even when I have often been picked up by Haredim when hitchhiking in Israel, it is hard to have any kind of exchange with them; they will help out a non-religious person, but not chat with them. So, the Israelis whom foreigners are likely to come into contact with are the whole rest of the population. They do not use Yiddish or know a thing about it. Considering how much the more secular part of the country dislikes the Haredim, I can see how they would bristle at any question about a cultural feature they see as Haredim-linked.
    - onyva 7y ago
      "Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community" ... that's my point. They are not "Israeli" in the sense understood by this term today. They might as well be in Brooklin or some shtetl in Poland. Israel is not relveant for them in any meaningful way (excpet for the traditional "shnor").
      - nanna 7y ago
        These are blatant racist tropes about religious Jews!
        onyva 7y ago
        At least you didn’t say antisemitic. Assuming there’s anything “Semitic” about Eastern Europeans Jews (as per the above linked research paper). BTW talking of which, it’s always fun to go back and read Arthur Ruppin's ideas about race. That’s an ashkenazi eugenist whom couple of institutes in Israel are named after, including the Ruppin academic center.

by jsharf 7y ago

azernik 7y ago

Well of course it's not identical - they were assembled independently (this one by some random schmoe in New York) optimized for different letter and digram frequencies in different languages. I'm actually impressed by how similar they are. Another reason for difference, aside from frequency differences in the two languages, is that this keyboard distinguishes some characters that aren't on modern Hebrew keyboards. For example, there are separate אָ and א, בּ and ב, etc.

MagicPropmaker 7y ago
And double yod and double vov. Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available. Apple doesn’t.
- nanna 7y ago
  > Microsoft still had a proper Yiddish keyboard map available Do they?

wolf550e 7y ago

Being a Germanic language that has vowels, Yiddish should not have the same keyboard layout as a Semitic language.

onyva 7y ago
Yiddish really has nothing to do with Hebrew other than the script and borrowed words which are forced into it. Sort of like Farsi and Arabic. It’s unfortunate that because of the number advantage Eastern Europeans (and historical events) Jewish culture was completely altered. Authentic Jewish culture and traditions, which were dominant before the holocaust and are so much part of the Middle East and of course deeply influenced by, and influencing on, Islam and Arabic, are obscured. Some suggest the difference is more than tradition, and we are in fact separate people. Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Zionism tried so very hard to burry it and the culture it represented. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
- oldgradstudent 7y ago
  > Many Israelis still find it offensive when foreigners ask them if Yiddish is spoken in Israel. It is not. Yiddish is spoken in Israel by significant parts of the Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community. The number of speakers is probably in the low hundreds of thousands.
  - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
    Indeed, Yiddish is used in Israel, but consider the demographics here. Foreigners don’t come into much contact with the Yiddish-using Haredim. The Haredim tend to stay within their own communities, which are not neighbourhoods where just any tourist is going to pass through. Even when I have often been picked up by Haredim when hitchhiking in Israel, it is hard to have any kind of exchange with them; they will help out a non-religious person, but not chat with them. So, the Israelis whom foreigners are likely to come into contact with are the whole rest of the population. They do not use Yiddish or know a thing about it. Considering how much the more secular part of the country dislikes the Haredim, I can see how they would bristle at any question about a cultural feature they see as Haredim-linked.
  - onyva 7y ago
    "Ashkenazi Ultra-Orthodox community" ... that's my point. They are not "Israeli" in the sense understood by this term today. They might as well be in Brooklin or some shtetl in Poland. Israel is not relveant for them in any meaningful way (excpet for the traditional "shnor").
    - nanna 7y ago
      These are blatant racist tropes about religious Jews!
      - onyva 7y ago
        At least you didn’t say antisemitic. Assuming there’s anything “Semitic” about Eastern Europeans Jews (as per the above linked research paper). BTW talking of which, it’s always fun to go back and read Arthur Ruppin's ideas about race. That’s an ashkenazi eugenist whom couple of institutes in Israel are named after, including the Ruppin academic center.